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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 18:21:33 GMT
Anybody watch last night's first episode? I enjoyed it personally but didn't realise the 1973 stock were in such a state! Yes it was really interesting, I wonder what components Tube lines had to get from eBay to keep the 73's running. The show really does show just how the whole tube is reaching its limits. They did say it was to keep the dot matrix signs on the platforms working not the trains. I do know though to keep some things working in the control room at Earls Court eBay was mentioned as a source of spares as well as the museum. If they started to rip out the old de commissioned assets but in some cases still powered up on the Northern Line they would have plenty of spares.
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Post by will on Mar 22, 2016 18:30:16 GMT
<<The show really does show just how the whole tube is reaching its limits.>> Yes, and the govt in its infinite wisdom wants development around stations! Colindale is an example of a place where tower blocks keep going up, the scale and density of which is frankly distasteful. At the rate things are going up there will probably be enough demand just from there to fill up the Edgware branch. Even when they build new lines like the Elizabeth Line all that happens is housing along the route booms and those who predict it will be immediately full look like they will be right. Any increases in service frequency and service quality just lead to more people using the lines where this will end I don't know
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Post by superteacher on Mar 22, 2016 19:33:10 GMT
Regarding the buying of parts from Ebay, is that actually true or is it a kind of LU urban myth?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 19:35:26 GMT
Regarding the buying of parts from Ebay, is that actually true or is it a kind of LU urban myth? I hate to say it, but to me it's one of those things where the fact that it's even plausible says more than enough ...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2016 19:38:01 GMT
its true and has been done
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Post by 1018509 on Mar 22, 2016 21:19:26 GMT
Anybody watch last night's first episode? I enjoyed it personally but didn't realise the 1973 stock were in such a state! I worked on 1973 stock from delivery to 2010 they were always bad because they were built down to a specification mainly based on cost. Compressors leak like sieves, some of the underframe components were/are from previous stocks. The refurb is cosmetic; still a botch job beneath the skin. Something always cracking; motor noses, axle tubes, trucks.
Great tribute to the staff that they have them kept going so well for so long.
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Post by revupminster on Mar 22, 2016 21:31:43 GMT
It was interesting see how football traffic was dealt with. It was always more problematic getting the passengers out of the station. When I worked at Upton Park you kept the train in the station as long as you could to act as a physical barrier and stop passengers falling off the platform as they bunched up near the stairs.
When the station was taken over from BR the westbound staircase was divided into half and two quarter sections so passengers could use one quarter to get down to the platform. This staircase was wooden and LT made the steps concrete and only had two halves so it was then the survival of the fittest who could get down to the platform.
Once the station master decided to make sure all the passengers entering the station after a football match bought tickets. The British Transport Police threatened to arrest him for obstructing them as all they were interested in was clearing the street as quickly as possible. Happy days!!
We used to have three ticket windows in those days, four on Monday mornings.
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Post by Chris M on Mar 22, 2016 21:36:22 GMT
It also doesn't work on linux
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 22, 2016 23:21:29 GMT
It was interesting see how football traffic was dealt with. It was always more problematic getting the passengers out of the station. When I worked at Upton Park you kept the train in the station as long as you could to act as a physical barrier and stop passengers falling off the platform as they bunched up near the stairs. We used to do the same at Fulham Broadway as well but both stations don't seem to do it anymore. A similar technique is getting drivers to leave the platform slowly to the end of the car count up markers - something else that dosen't seem to be requested anymore but which most of us drivers do anyway if the platform edge is crowded. Trouble these days, as is clearly shown in the TV program, is that rather than using experienced local staff who know their station working on overtme the powers that be save money by using the special requirements team on normal pay rate. Whilst in theory its a nice idea to have a group of staff you can move around to suit the needs of the business, you end up with staff covering stations that have no idea what the crowd control issues are, how to recognise them or how to combat them.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Mar 26, 2016 18:39:38 GMT
Just got around to watching this.
Was surprised that no one seemed to notice that the problem with the escalator trial was not that passengers continued to walk, it was that passengers who did not want to walk would not stand on the left. It would not in any way slow things down if passengers continued to walk if the way was clear (unless it put people off standing because they thought they would be blocking others).
Noted that they said the Piccadilly line stock was going to be replaced within the next decade. This contradicts the long running "72 stock to serve until 2030's" thread (although I haven't been through the whole thing to see if the title was contradicted in thread).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2016 18:53:34 GMT
Just got around to watching this. Was surprised that no one seemed to notice that the problem with the escalator trial was not that passengers continued to walk, it was that passengers who did not want to walk would not stand on the left. It would not in any way slow things down if passengers continued to walk if the way was clear (unless it put people off standing because they thought they would be blocking others). Noted that they said the Piccadilly line stock was going to be replaced within the next decade. This contradicts the long running "72 stock to serve until 2030's" thread (although I haven't been through the whole thing to see if the title was contradicted in thread). Piccadilly line 1973 stock are due to be replaced around 2025-6 (chart is hard to read) under current arrangements, which may well prove optimistic. Bakerloo line 1972 stock are due to be replaced a little later, with the first train delivered around 2025 and completion by around 2027. This may also be a little optimistic. It's fair to say, though, that timescales have changed around a bit and there had been suggestions that the Bakerloo line would have its fleet of 1972 stock replaced last. It seems, though, that the full complement of NTfL trains will have to be provided before 2030 if the Bakerloo line extension is to go ahead (which ...). Source.
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Post by danwoodhouse on Mar 27, 2016 22:50:48 GMT
just seen show 1 on the I-player
it seemed just like a carbon copy copy of the I.T.V and B.B.C series - camera crew hang around waiting for the incident to happen so they can video it so they get a scoop and give publicity to angry nieve commuters or drunken yobs holding the trains up
when is there going to be an underground series about the actual history of the trains themselves, a sort of television version of that underground movement book
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Post by Chris W on Mar 28, 2016 8:44:40 GMT
when is there going to be an underground series about the actual history of the trains themselves, a sort of television version of that underground movement book I think a programme/series focusing upon the rolling stock itself might be a little too niche for the Channel 5 audience. Fly-on-the-wall series are relatively cheap to make and capture a respectful percentage of the viewing audience so that advertisement revenue more than matches the cost of the production costs and broadcasting fees. Make a series too specialist and viewing figures will drop, making it harder to sell advert time. Its all supply and demand economics...
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Post by rheostar on Mar 28, 2016 8:55:58 GMT
just seen show 1 on the I-player it seemed just like a carbon copy copy of the I.T.V and B.B.C series - camera crew hang around waiting for the incident to happen so they can video it so they get a scoop and give publicity to angry nieve commuters or drunken yobs holding the trains up when is there going to be an underground series about the actual history of the trains themselves, a sort of television version of that underground movement book There's already many videos on the history of London Underground, do a search on YouTube and you'll get loads in the results.
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Post by rheostar on Mar 28, 2016 8:57:48 GMT
when is there going to be an underground series about the actual history of the trains themselves, a sort of television version of that underground movement book I think a programme/series focusing upon the rolling stock itself might be a little too niche for the Channel 5 audience. And the audience would be asleep after two minutes!
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Post by blackhorsesteve on Mar 28, 2016 21:00:22 GMT
An interesting mix tonight of cutbacks negatively affecting passengers and unnecessary expenditure!
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Post by patrickb on Mar 28, 2016 23:04:14 GMT
An interesting mix tonight of cutbacks negatively affecting passengers and unnecessary expenditure! Of course, it's just one of the ways TfL reinvest all their income to run and improve your service!
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Post by silverfoxcc on Mar 29, 2016 13:56:09 GMT
The ticket touts had a mention last night. Dumb question, but how do they operate?
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Post by will on Mar 29, 2016 14:02:20 GMT
The ticket touts had a mention last night. Dumb question, but how do they operate? They operate by standing by ticket gates and unsuspecting passengers give them their tickets as they believe the have to. They then sell the tickets to other people who either don't know they shouldn't buy them or think its a cheap way to travel.
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Post by blackhorsesteve on Mar 29, 2016 15:41:46 GMT
The ticket touts had a mention last night. Dumb question, but how do they operate? They operate by standing by ticket gates and unsuspecting passengers give them their tickets as they believe the have to. They then sell the tickets to other people who either don't know they shouldn't buy them or think its a cheap way to travel. Generally only works for paper one-day travelcards - usually they beg for them as you leave the station if it's late at night. With the advent of Oyster I haven't seen any for ages though although they do clearly still exist.
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Post by patrickb on Mar 29, 2016 15:52:20 GMT
I think you'll find that they target unsuspecting tourists specifically, and Victoria is known for the vast number of tourists that pass through. So you won't see them out and about across the network, but you're more likely to catch one at Central Area Stations.
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Post by countryman on Mar 29, 2016 17:00:31 GMT
I used to get hassled at Hounslow West, but not recently
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Post by silverfoxcc on Mar 29, 2016 17:58:07 GMT
Thanks, Just couldnt figure it out how it paid them
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Post by Chris W on Mar 29, 2016 20:05:17 GMT
One of the benefits of contactless payment is that there are fewer... and increasingly fewer... tickets for touts to obtain to make it a worthwhile so-called black market business. Yet more often than not such individuals are merely being moved on and consequently encouraged by the lack of support to turn to alternative, possibly violent means to find money... Not that it makes it right, however those people who do fall away from society's wayside appear to have fewer opportunities to find money to fund habits.... or even a bed for the night. Funding of charities and local authority cut backs certainly haven't made life for those living on the fringes of society any easier or any less likely to find a financially illegitimate way to make ends meet. As with all things if life, the path with least resistance is the route that most will travel... if education and housing were available, then many of the causes of homelessness and resulting criminality can at east be addressed and minimised. More genuinely joined up social processes with genuine funding would result in less touting, less abuse, less criminality and huge... enormous savings on the criminal justice system. Society would also benefit though greater taxation of legitimately earned wages... Mel and I have saved two youngsters from this road.... yet its clear that this is only because they are young... add another 10 years to their age and their prospects would have been less bright, with drug abuse, prostitution, living on the street, criminality and prison a far more likely prospect !!!
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Post by patrickb on Mar 29, 2016 20:21:26 GMT
One of the benefits of contactless payment is that there are fewer... and increasingly fewer... tickets for touts to obtain to make it a worthwhile so-called black market business. I think those benefits extend to Oyster as well. Especially when you consider that Oyster made a significant impact by reducing touting on a network wide scale when it was first introduced.
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Post by stapler on Mar 29, 2016 20:54:45 GMT
Cashless payment (oyster, contactless debit, apple pay etc) is obviously the way to go, but what crass thinking left Victoria with only 4 machines the day after the TO closed?
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Post by Tubeboy on Mar 30, 2016 0:06:14 GMT
Cashless payment (oyster, contactless debit, apple pay etc) is obviously the way to go, but what crass thinking left Victoria with only 4 machines the day after the TO closed? The same people who are moving station supervisors from the likes of Roding Valley and Theydon Bois to places like London Bridge and Waterloo. I station familiarised three new station supervisors recently. None are trained in lift and escalator operation, platform edge doors, control room equipment or the fire control panel. Madness. Thanks to 'Fit for the future' there will be 800 less staff on the network. The system is at breaking point now. I was 5 staff short yesterday. So the future looks bleak.
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Post by MoreToJack on Mar 30, 2016 0:25:02 GMT
but what crass thinking left Victoria with only 4 machines the day after the TO closed? Not strictly true, as could actually be seen in the programme; there were four machines (Multi-fares) in the area immediately by the former windows, but further machines (the smaller Advanced fare machines, and further Multi-fares) elsewhere on the station. However, it did portray well many of the issues being faced across the network by the TO closures, which continue to prevail at 'Gateway' stations several months after the "transformation" works were completed. I had six AFMs (out of ten!) simultaneously not dispensing Oyster cards the other week due to faults, alongside a fault on one (of three) MFM rendering it useless for cash transactions. And when the engineers arrived? "No fault found." Avoiding further comment on the TV series though, both episodes so far have had me screaming at the television. Next week's will be viewed to support my colleagues, but after that, I'm done...
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Post by North End on Mar 30, 2016 5:47:13 GMT
but what crass thinking left Victoria with only 4 machines the day after the TO closed? Not strictly true, as could actually be seen in the programme; there were four machines (Multi-fares) in the area immediately by the former windows, but further machines (the smaller Advanced fare machines, and further Multi-fares) elsewhere on the station. However, it did portray well many of the issues being faced across the network by the TO closures, which continue to prevail at 'Gateway' stations several months after the "transformation" works were completed. I had six AFMs (out of ten!) simultaneously not dispensing Oyster cards the other week due to faults, alongside a fault on one (of three) MFM rendering it useless for cash transactions. And when the engineers arrived? "No fault found." Avoiding further comment on the TV series though, both episodes so far have had me screaming at the television. Next week's will be viewed to support my colleagues, but after that, I'm done... Agree with this. Euston in particular has been total chaos after the booking office closed, at certain times like weekends it can take 5 mins just to get from entrance to the gateline, that's without needing to buy a ticket. Euston was always crowded, so this should have been easily forseen. I definitely prefer the civilised order of queuing for a ticket window and getting the MF's undivided attention, than the chaotic free-for-all which now exists. Sadly it looks like some TOCs (eg GTR) are looking to go the same unsatisfactory way. I can understand that lightly used booking offices are uneconomic, however things have been taken way to far. It's ironic that you can have a booking office out in the sticks at somewhere like Parbold (Lancs), or Ham Street (Kent), but not somewhere like Euston or Golders Green. The whole FFTFS is a mess, and is the opposite of world class.
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Post by stapler on Mar 30, 2016 7:02:17 GMT
I'm sometimes unfortunate enough to have to get a ticket through to NR destinations at Loughton, Epping, or Stratford. I can't use contactless or oyster, so I'm generally behind someone fiddling with their specs to read destinations on those small screens, or counting out 20p and 5p coins. This is compounded by the idiocy of having a machine on the TfL rail platforms at Stratford, almost never used, but not one on 9/10/10a/11, where the need for rebooking occurs most!
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