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Post by snoggle on Oct 12, 2015 9:07:14 GMT
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Post by rapidtransitman on Oct 12, 2015 15:31:03 GMT
This consultation doesn't state it would support the splitting of the Northern Line branches into separate lines, but certainly these works would go a long way toward the internal transfer capacity between the lines at Camden Town station to make this possible. Are TfL merely minimizing the drama regarding this line splitting? Edit: This link addresses this point - www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/lu-opens-consultation-on-transformative-camden-town-station-upgrades:"In August, RTM reported that plans to split the Northern Line into two has been stymied before by the need for extensive remodelling of Camden Town station. The last major attempt to do so collapsed in 2004 amid widespread local and eventually national opposition because it would have meant losing important buildings around the station. But in 2013, TfL unveiled refreshed plans, which would see the station rebuilt for 2024. The station would become a key interchange between the two separated Northern lines. The latest consultation does not specifically reference the splitting of the Northern Line, referring instead, euphemistically, to “future capacity benefits on the Northern Line”. But TfL board papers have been clear that it wants to “deliver a fully separated Northern Line offering between 33 and 36tph by April 2023”. Those plans depend on the prior implementation of the Camden Town Station Congestion Relief scheme, for which Transport and Works Act Order approval is expected during autumn 2017. Andy Bourne, LU head of automatic train control, had previously told RTM that work on preparing for the next Northern Line upgrades will see a complete separation of the line into two to achieve frequencies of up to 36 trains per hour."
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 12, 2015 16:24:51 GMT
This consultation doesn't state it would support the splitting of the Northern Line branches into separate lines, but certainly these works would go a long way toward the internal transfer capacity between the lines at Camden Town station to make this possible. Are TfL merely minimizing the drama regarding this line splitting? It's been done before - it's not all that long ago that there were through trains from barking to Uxbridge, and the line through Ladbroke Grove was purple. And still in living memory there were District trains to Uxbridge and Hounslow. Let the through services fade away and then present the formal split as a logical reflection of the service patterns. (of course, as is at present done with "re-forming" Circles at Edgware Road to become something else, it will still be possible to divert at Camden/Kennington if the need arises - at least until signalling or rolling stock provision diverges).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 16:37:35 GMT
(of course, as is at present done with "re-forming" Circles at Edgware Road to become something else, it will still be possible to divert at Camden/Kennington if the need arises - at least until signalling or rolling stock provision diverges). I think it'd be insane not to operate a split Northern line along the lines of today's Circle and Hammersmith & City lines
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North End
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Post by North End on Oct 12, 2015 18:03:14 GMT
(of course, as is at present done with "re-forming" Circles at Edgware Road to become something else, it will still be possible to divert at Camden/Kennington if the need arises - at least until signalling or rolling stock provision diverges). I think it'd be insane not to operate a split Northern line along the lines of today's Circle and Hammersmith & City lines I can see the merit of splitting at the south end, as the Victoria Line provides an opportunity for access to the west end via Stockwell. I'm less convinced at the north end, as both northern branches have heavy demand for the Bank branch. The depot provision dictates a Barnet-Morden service, and in any case the Barnet branch is the busier of the two. However Bank trains on both branches are fully loaded by Camden in the peaks, and there's no obvious alternative way of getting from the Edgware branch to the city, so I could see the amount of interchange traffic and the unloading/loading time at Camden Town negating any frequency benefit from full separation. The Barnet side also has alternative ways of reaching the city in the form of the Welwyn-Moorgate service, plus Thameslink from Kentish Town. It doesn't help that TBTC doesn't appear to push trains through Camden as efficiently as the old signalling.
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Post by spsmiler on Oct 12, 2015 21:49:53 GMT
It doesn't help that TBTC doesn't appear to push trains through Camden as efficiently as the old signalling. That is probably not a comment for discussion on this thread but it begs many questions... after all, automation should improve the service - not degrade it. Please keep TBTC away from the Central Line - we are happy with what we have (rolling stock yet another different issue)! --------------------------------------------------- I dont know if local people will like what is planned, maybe the new entrance will be nearer the Camden Market(?) I've never been there and am not sure. As I am not local and only visit the area when interchanging with the Overground at Camden Road so I'm not even going to take part in the survey. The idea of a very busy station having two entrances sounds good. But I bet that one will eventually be reduced to part-time status. Simon
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Post by malcolmffc on Oct 13, 2015 7:22:16 GMT
Not convinced that this scheme will provide the required capacity uplift (or if it does, that the new capacity won't quickly be used up.) It looks much less ambitious than the original.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 13, 2015 9:18:21 GMT
, maybe the new entrance will be nearer the Camden Market(?) I've never been there and am not sure. It's nearer Camden Lock, but Camden Market appears from the map to be about midway between the two entrances. [/quote] The idea of a very busy station having two entrances sounds good. But I bet that one will eventually be reduced to part-time status. Not a bad idea - it certainly needs two at peak times but may manage with only one at quieter times - although for safety reasons arrangements may be necesssary to ensure exit is always possible in an emergency. The pictures suggest the new entrance hall and subways at platform level will be more spacious than the existing arrangements, (so the capacity of the station will be more than doubled) and so it may be the original entrance which goes part time. (This might not be to the liking of people travelling to the east and south of the station, and in particular changing to the Overground at Camden Road, as they will have a longer walk) I think it'd be insane not to operate a split Northern line along the lines of today's Circle and Hammersmith & City lines But that is not what is proposed. The Circle and H&C share tracks - what is proposed is to completely separate the Northern Line so that the Edgware - CX - Battersea trains are isolated from the Barnet - Bank- Morden ones. This would be roughly analogous to running the SSL with no Mets east of Baker Street, H&C terminating at Aldgate, all trains from Wimbledon going to Edgware Road, and no Circle at all.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 13, 2015 10:00:38 GMT
I think the comment about splitting was that it be done so that regardless of the normal service pattern, trains can be diverted to the other branch during disruption or engineering work for example.
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