Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 7, 2015 20:59:40 GMT
North of Wembley Park the Jubilee Line (formerly the Stanmore branch of course) diverges from the Met main by diving under the southbound lines. Does this location have a name? It isn't labelled on Carto Metro, on Harsig's diagrams or on CULG (other than as just "[diveunder]"). I'm not sure where else to look.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 7, 2015 21:36:22 GMT
North of Wembley Park the Jubilee Line (formerly the Stanmore branch of course) diverges from the Met main by diving under the southbound lines. Does this location have a name? It isn't labelled on Carto Metro, on Harsig's diagrams or on CULG (other than as just "[diveunder]"). I'm not sure where else to look. Just looked in my good ole A-Z. Must have been logical night in 1932 when they built the Met branch-it's Stanmore Junction on the A-Z map. |
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Post by jetblast787 on Oct 7, 2015 21:36:39 GMT
Maybe Preston Road Diveunder? I don't really see a need to name this point as the Jub doesn't share tracks with the Met as you are probably aware. I think preston road diveunder would be the closest useful name to someone not familiar with the area
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Post by marri260 on Oct 7, 2015 22:05:31 GMT
Stanmore Junction AFAIK
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 7, 2015 22:17:20 GMT
Stanmore Junction does indeed seem logical, thank you. Maybe Preston Road Diveunder? I don't really see a need to name this point as the Jub doesn't share tracks with the Met as you are probably aware. I think preston road diveunder would be the closest useful name to someone not familiar with the area I think it was grade separated after opening, and originally of course it was a branch of the met and so would have been named as a junction. Even if it had been grade separated on a completely independent railway from the start it likely still would have been named as there are many good operational reasons to name those sorts of locations on a railway. In my case, I happened to photograph it today and want to know what to name it, so that when it appears in the quiz at some future point those people who do know the correct answer aren't mislead into thinking they got it wrong because I was ignorant! |
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Post by marri260 on Oct 7, 2015 23:49:48 GMT
When the Stanmore branch opened as a Met Railway extension in 1932 it was a standard flat junction, converted into the current flyunder in 1938 with the coming of the Bakerloo.
The gradients in the area today still give a clue as to the former flat junction, it is certainly noticeable when riding through in the cab.
Believe the flat junction was to/from what were the 'fast' Met lines into London, with the points at Wembley allowing trains from Stanmore to reverse at Wembley for the Stanmore-Wembley shuttle that was common in the early days of the Stanmore branch, or head on to Finchley Road on either the fast or slow lines.
Sure someone with more appropriate materials can enlighten us all further, as the track layout between Harrow-Finchley Road changed considerably many times up until the Bakerloo takeover.
Would highly recommend Mike Horne's 'The Jubilee Line, an illustrated history' for an good insight into the Stanmore branch and more.
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Post by melikepie on Oct 8, 2015 9:01:15 GMT
Although where the disused railway to Stanmore diverged from Harrow & Wealdstone, this was apparently called Stanmore Branch Junction
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Post by stapler on Oct 8, 2015 16:14:00 GMT
There was some logic to this, and it happens elsewhere; Eg, Loughton Branch Junction was where the 1856 branch to Loughton diverged from the ECR Cambridge main line; Loughton Jc was the junction between the old (1856) line to the abandoned station near the Lopping Hall, the excursion station half way along it, and the carriage sidings/goods yard and the new (1865) extension to Epping.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 9, 2015 14:49:05 GMT
I'm sure when I was on the Met (74-75) south of Wembley Pk was Neasden flyunder,north of Wembley Pk was Wembley flyover.
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Post by rdm on Oct 9, 2015 19:59:04 GMT
The junction was known as Stanmore Junction. The change from a flat to a grade seperated junction occurred in two stages between 26 June and 25 September 1954; this work also seperated the Bakerloo (as it then was)services at Wembley Park so that the line served dedicated seperate platform lines as now with the Met main and local lines no longer conflicting with them. Supplements to T/Cs 25 and 38 of 1954 refer. There is an advert. in the last but one issue of UndergrounD News for a CD of Supplements to Traffic Circulars from 1931 to 2007 under the title of 'Signalling Record Society(SRS)Research Note No. 42', the results of much work by a small group of interested people, in conjunction with the SRS.
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Post by howda62 on Oct 9, 2015 21:23:37 GMT
I've been referencing my copy of Mike Horne's "The Metropolitan Line, an illustrated history". The flyover was built in 1938 as part of the works to swap the met line track layouts between Finchley Road and Preston Road to have the fasts running as the outer lines. However 6 platforms at Wembley Park converged down to 4 tracks north of Wembley Park meaning trains to Stanmore and Harrow-on-the-Hill shared tracks. In 1954 he notes extra tracks being laid to achieve full segregation of the Met and Bakerloo lines north of Wembley Park. I hope this helps to correlate the valid comments made by marri260 and rdm, it helped me 
He calls the junction either Stanmore Line junction or Stanmore Junction. |
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Post by rdm on Oct 9, 2015 22:08:50 GMT
Thanks for clarifying my post - I had conflated the two changes to the layout! Apologies.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 15:45:16 GMT
Instructions in the 1930s state "Stanmore Junction" (pre and post the flyunder).
The flyunder at Stanmore Junction came into use 7/11/38.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 10, 2015 17:40:41 GMT
There is definitely a railway trend of naming junctions not after where the junction is, but where the junction is for.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 10, 2015 17:57:36 GMT
There is definitely a railway trend of naming junctions not after where the junction is, but where the junction is for. And in the past, too, witness Tiverton Junction in these parts &, nearer London, the original Swanley station was named Swanley Junction & was built three- quarters of a mile from Swanley village, the settlement around the station is still known by some as New Swanley. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 10, 2015 18:41:53 GMT
See also Llandudno Junction, Yeovil Junction, etc
At Bromley Junction in Norwood, the branch no longer goes as far as Bromley.
Conversely, until very recently, there were no direct trains from Clapham Junction to Clapham.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 10, 2015 18:51:29 GMT
There is/was a Birmingham Junction in London, hence the East And West India Docks and Birmingham Junction Railway (later North London Railway), and I think there is a Channel Tunnel Junction somewhere near King's Cross as well.
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Post by grahamhewett on Oct 10, 2015 19:00:51 GMT
The Cobb Atlas shows the junction as "Wembley Park Junction"
@chris M - not to mention the well-known Junction Road Junction...
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 10, 2015 19:44:56 GMT
For stations not where there name suggests, surely Dent is the winner - seven miles between station and village.
I seem to recall a story that in the early years the company was asked why Dent station was not in Dent village. Their response: "The station is built at that location so as to be on the Railway Line".
Anyway, I drift....
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 10, 2015 20:45:53 GMT
@chris M - not to mention the well-known Junction Road Junction... Junction Road pre-dates Junction Road Junction, being named for a junction of turnpikes. |
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Post by North End on Oct 10, 2015 20:48:52 GMT
The Cobb Atlas shows the junction as "Wembley Park Junction" @chris M - not to mention the well-known Junction Road Junction... Junction names on LU are a little obscure compared to mainline. Apart from some official and well known ones, for example Hanger Lane, Watford South/North/East (etc) very few are referred to by name either by staff or in operational publications. To give an example, I've never seen or heard the Mill Hill branch junction referred to by any name at all. In the case of the Stanmore branch, I believe an old notice refers to Stanmore Junction (as others have posted), however since there's no actual junction there now I'd suggest officially it's probably not strictly correct to refer to it as that today. Certainly I suspect you'd get asked to clarify if you were a driver and reported trespassers at Stanmore Junction. |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 10, 2015 20:49:48 GMT
For stations not where there name suggests, surely Dent is the winner - seven miles between station and village. Surely Loughborough Junction beats that? (although that is named only indirectly for the Midlands town) |
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Post by stapler on Oct 10, 2015 20:58:58 GMT
The record must be held by Bundoran Junction (station as well as junction)in Northern Ireland, which was about 33 miles from Bundoran, I believe!
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