roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Oct 25, 2017 21:59:49 GMT
Surely the GOBLIN goes up and down, not eastbound and westbound? But which direction is up? According to Yazz, the only way is up. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2017 14:03:45 GMT
It was always my understanding when I used to frequent the North London route in BR days that the UP was in the Euston/Broad Street direction and the DOWN was in the Richmond/Watford direction.
I had always presumed that when TfL took over routes and rebranded them as OVERGROUND, they took the UNDERGROUND convention of north-/east-bound etc.
I have never considered it to be a problem as the platforms usually listed the stations served by the trains in whatever direction. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 28, 2017 20:10:34 GMT
It was always my understanding when I used to frequent the North London route in BR days that the UP was in the Euston/Broad Street direction and the DOWN was in the Richmond/Watford direction. Indeed it was, because "up" is (generally) towards the London terminus, (the datum point for mileage posts) which for the North London Railway was Broad Street (or Euston). But the Tottenham & Hampstead was a child of the Midland Railway, so "up" was towards St Pancras. This does mean that any through train between Upper Holloway and Hampstead Heath via Gospel Oak switches from being an "up" train to a "down" train without actually reversing, but the situation is far from unique. |
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Post by 35b on Oct 28, 2017 21:58:35 GMT
It was always my understanding when I used to frequent the North London route in BR days that the UP was in the Euston/Broad Street direction and the DOWN was in the Richmond/Watford direction. Indeed it was, because "up" is (generally) towards the London terminus, (the datum point for mileage posts) which for the North London Railway was Broad Street (or Euston). But the Tottenham & Hampstead was a child of the Midland Railway, so "up" was towards St Pancras. This does mean that any through train between Upper Holloway and Hampstead Heath via Gospel Oak switches from being an "up" train to a "down" train without actually reversing, but the situation is far from unique. I thought the Midland had it’s datum at Derby, not St Pancras? |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 28, 2017 22:43:49 GMT
It might have originally, but it certainly used St Pancras later on for measuring distance: Apperley Jct in the Aire valley west of Leeds isn't 200miles from Derby!
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Post by 35b on Oct 29, 2017 7:40:13 GMT
It might have originally, but it certainly used St Pancras later on for measuring distance: Apperley Jct in the Aire valley west of Leeds isn't 200miles from Derby! Fair point, well made! |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 29, 2017 9:00:14 GMT
I'm pretty sure that Marylebone is the only London terminus not to be a 0 datum point.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 1, 2017 16:39:44 GMT
I went for a spin along the GOBLIN today - w/b to Upper Holloway from B'Horse Rd and then back along the line to Wanstead Park. In essence the wiring is complete from Gospel Oak to Palmerston Rd Bridge (half way between Blackhorse Rd and WW Queens Road). The spur to the GEML is not wired yet (there are masts) nor are the connections at South Tottenham fully reinstated. Beyond Palmerston Road there are masts all along the route to Wanstead Park. There are hangers in place on many masts and side fixings in the constrained section through Walthamstow where clearances are tight. Where wires are in place they run side by side under Crouch Hill bridge and some bridges east of Blackhorse Road. The extended platform areas are not in use yet. I'll add a link to some photos later when I've got them on to Flickr.EDIT - Photo Link A few more, at Upper Holloway and Wanstead Park, will be added later on. |
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Post by stapler on Nov 1, 2017 18:23:15 GMT
Apropos of the discussion about up and down on the Goblin, there is a report today by RAIB on an incident at Clapham on the Settle-Carnforth line when track components were left on the wrong road, being described as up when it should have been down, and then ploughed into by a class 142....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2017 13:58:00 GMT
Just following on from the question of which way is up and down on the North London Line the following might be helpful.
All directions on the North London line from Camden West Junction are down lines, so travelling towards Primrose Hill from Camden West the lines are the Down Primrose Hill and in the other direction the Up Primrose Hill. From Camden West to Stratford is the Down North London Line (along with relief lines etc). From Stratford to Camden Road West is the Up North London.
From Camden West Jcn to Richmond is the Down North London (to Gunnersbury Junction where it becomes the Down Richmond WB), Richmond to Gunnersbury and Camden West are the corresponding up lines. From Gospel Oak Junction to Barking the lines are designated as the Down and Up Tottenham and Hampstead Down to Barking and Up to Gospel Oak Junction.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 16, 2017 23:50:25 GMT
Courtesy of a tip on another forum it seems that Network Rail have registered Streetworks at Crouch Hill Station for 7 months next year to raise the road bridge which crosses the GOBLIN tracks. This can be seen on the Streetworks register.
Here is the brief description of the works from the register.
The logical assumption is that many of those months are about creating an alternative utilities route / bridge and then the actual diversion of said utilities. Raising the bridge is apparently relatively straightforward. Will be interesting to see what impacts there are on the station and the train service.
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Post by aslefshrugged on Nov 27, 2017 14:50:07 GMT
The wiring machine is currently in action at Leyton Midland Road heading east
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Post by snoggle on Nov 29, 2017 16:58:17 GMT
Comments in "another place" suggest that the wires between South Tottenham and Gospel Oak should be engergised after 10 December 2017. This also implies (my view here, not mentioned elsewhere) that the connecting "knitting" to the West Anglia lines (up to Seven Sisters via the curve / south to the main Lea Valley lines) should also be joined up and re-engergised at the same time. It will be interesting to see what route the Saturday 0530 Liv St - Enfield Town takes - will it resume its wandering via Clapton and South Tottenham?
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Post by jukes on Nov 30, 2017 18:39:37 GMT
Comments in "another place" suggest that the wires between South Tottenham and Gospel Oak should be engergised after 10 December 2017. This also implies (my view here, not mentioned elsewhere) that the connecting "knitting" to the West Anglia lines (up to Seven Sisters via the curve / south to the main Lea Valley lines) should also be joined up and re-engergised at the same time. It will be interesting to see what route the Saturday 0530 Liv St - Enfield Town takes - will it resume its wandering via Clapton and South Tottenham? In short the answer is yes. The Saturday 0530 has to keep running otherwise NR would have to post a closure notice for the connecting chord between ST and SS. This is because it is the only scheduled passenger service over that 490m stretch of line. So it's a Parliamentary Train! It's cheaper to run it than go through all the political, legal and financial angst of the closure process. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 2, 2017 21:08:59 GMT
The line User Group recently met with Network Rail about the progress of the electrication works. Here is a tweet of theirs explaining what should happen. This is also a quote from their latest news iten available at www.barking-gospeloak.org.uk/index.htmObviously credit for the above goes to the User Group. I am just repeating what I've read. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2017 1:40:38 GMT
Much of the effort in the lifting of OB 14 is indeed in preparing all the services crossing the bridge for the deck lift, which will be a princely 313 mm. NR have saved a lot of money by negotiating with the Statutory Undertakers to allow their cables to be lifted with the deck as it goes up, rather than having a traditional temporary services bridge alongside the main bridge. There is a 200 mm water main that will have a temporary route suspended above the deck, with teed in connections and valves that allows us to replace the existing main with a new polythene pipe in a protective steel sleeve along its original route. All the jacking will be done from trenches across the road, leaving the railway below free of obstructions.
It is also intended to keep a pedestrian route open over the bridge at all times, and the project will use their best endeavours to keep at least one road lane open as much as they can.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 3, 2017 11:47:31 GMT
Much of the effort in the lifting of OB 14 is indeed in preparing all the services crossing the bridge for the deck lift, which will be a princely 313 mm. NR have saved a lot of money by negotiating with the Statutory Undertakers to allow their cables to be lifted with the deck as it goes up, rather than having a traditional temporary services bridge alongside the main bridge. There is a 200 mm water main that will have a temporary route suspended above the deck, with teed in connections and valves that allows us to replace the existing main with a new polythene pipe in a protective steel sleeve along its original route. All the jacking will be done from trenches across the road, leaving the railway below free of obstructions. It is also intended to keep a pedestrian route open over the bridge at all times, and the project will use their best endeavours to keep at least one road lane open as much as they can. Wow. Have to say that sounds fascinating given the intention to try to keep the traffic flowing. Looks like a lot of brain power has been expended in trying to find "clever" ways to do the work with minimal disruption. |
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Post by stafford on Dec 4, 2017 17:16:52 GMT
Has anyone got any more recent info regarding the MMl link, i.e. from Junction Road Jn. to Carlton Road Jn. I see this as a really important for the existing - and future (Thamesside) freight side, quite apart from passenger possibilities. A bit of rail future?
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Post by jukes on Dec 4, 2017 17:59:04 GMT
Has anyone got any more recent info regarding the MMl link, i.e. from Junction Road Jn. to Carlton Road Jn. I see this as a really important for the existing - and future (Thamesside) freight side, quite apart from passenger possibilities. A bit of rail future? I am fairly certain it was 'de-scoped' from the scheme. Or in English it was dropped from the plan. DfT I think insisted on cost cut for unnecessary work!! |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 4, 2017 20:31:33 GMT
Has anyone got any more recent info regarding the MMl link, i.e. from Junction Road Jn. to Carlton Road Jn. I see this as a really important for the existing - and future (Thamesside) freight side, quite apart from passenger possibilities. A bit of rail future? I am fairly certain it was 'de-scoped' from the scheme. Or in English it was dropped from the plan. DfT I think insisted on cost cut for unnecessary work!! It was descoped. The initial plan was for a two stage electrification - GOBLIN passenger service first and then a few years later the link to the ECML, MML and also Thameside freight terminals. The next iteration of Network Rail's plan (Anglia Route Spec dated 2016) went to a one stage project of GOBLIN passenger, ECML link and Thames Have and that's it. Not aware of any timescales for wiring the link to the MML or other sidings in East London / Essex. No dates are given in NR's route spec for electrification. I suspect the decision to scrap MML electrification north of Kettering has killed any prospect of wiring the link line. I'm also sure someone wrote on another blog that the Junction Rd link has clearance issues for wires which means extensive works would be required to create a compliant clearance - another reason why works may never proceed, cost. Obviously life has moved on since 2016 but I don't when NR will update their route studies / spec for Anglia (or elsewhere). |
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Post by stafford on Dec 5, 2017 18:41:45 GMT
Thank for that snoggle, most helpful, if sad.
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Post by dazz285 on Dec 8, 2017 15:17:57 GMT
Latest info from the powers that be...
As part of the on-going improvements to the Gospel Oak to Barking line from 07.00 Sunday 10th December the new overhead line equipment between Gospel Oak and South Tottenham will be energised with 25,000 volts and must be considered live at all times. From 18.00 Sunday 17th December the remainder of the line between South Tottenham and Woodgrange Park will also be energised.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 8, 2017 19:11:29 GMT
Latest info from the powers that be... Surely you mean from the power that will be... |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 8, 2017 21:50:28 GMT
Latest info from the powers that be... As part of the on-going improvements to the Gospel Oak to Barking line from 07.00 Sunday 10th December the new overhead line equipment between Gospel Oak and South Tottenham will be energised with 25,000 volts and must be considered live at all times. From 18.00 Sunday 17th December the remainder of the line between South Tottenham and Woodgrange Park will also be energised. Interesting. They have obviously made decent progress with the wiring train and are in a position for energisation to allow further testing. Quite surprised the eastern section is only a week behind. Still it all helps to reduce the risk of wire theft over the Christmas period when the railway is not operational (in the normal sense) for 2 days. |
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Post by mrjrt on Dec 9, 2017 10:55:14 GMT
I am fairly certain it was 'de-scoped' from the scheme. Or in English it was dropped from the plan. DfT I think insisted on cost cut for unnecessary work!! It was descoped. The initial plan was for a two stage electrification - GOBLIN passenger service first and then a few years later the link to the ECML, MML and also Thameside freight terminals. The next iteration of Network Rail's plan (Anglia Route Spec dated 2016) went to a one stage project of GOBLIN passenger, ECML link and Thames Have and that's it. Not aware of any timescales for wiring the link to the MML or other sidings in East London / Essex. No dates are given in NR's route spec for electrification. I suspect the decision to scrap MML electrification north of Kettering has killed any prospect of wiring the link line. I'm also sure someone wrote on another blog that the Junction Rd link has clearance issues for wires which means extensive works would be required to create a compliant clearance - another reason why works may never proceed, cost. Obviously life has moved on since 2016 but I don't when NR will update their route studies / spec for Anglia (or elsewhere). If the tunnel is indeed that constrained then it may well be the case that the nettle has to be grasped and the solution there is to implement a small part of the R25 proposal, i.e. to link Gospel Oak to West Hampstead's freight lines with a new (~2 mile?) tunnel. It would give a large chunk of it as a distinct line - Barking Riverside to Hounslow. That way you kill quite a few birds with one stone - you will have clearance for the knitting, you will free up capacity on the NLL bottleneck between Gospel Oak and Willesden, you will remove freight from the MML south of Hendon (as it will be able to reach the Dudding Hill line from the GOBLin without conflict, but will still be able to access the slows north of Hendon), and conceivably (depending on routing) you could build a passenger interchange with Belsize Park, if desired. |
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Post by toby on Dec 9, 2017 14:01:08 GMT
Would that Belsize Park Overground station be the only underground station with regular freight trains passing through? I hope there are some regulations about that.
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Post by mrjrt on Dec 9, 2017 14:26:21 GMT
I would imagine PEDs could mitigate most issues, or nice wide platform tunnels might suffice. But we digress...it's just an option without any detail whatsoever, abet one I think has legs.
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Post by croxleyn on Dec 9, 2017 16:36:51 GMT
With two alternative routes to get onto the West London tracks, I can't see any justification for any major expenditure for a third. And isn't that diesel-only in parts, anyway? Although not a fan of road improvements, there are a multitude of road junctions that could be substantially improved with a fraction of the £££s required for a tunnel.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 9, 2017 18:40:25 GMT
If the tunnel is indeed that constrained then it may well be the case that the nettle has to be grasped and the solution there is to implement a small part of the R25 proposal, i.e. to link Gospel Oak to West Hampstead's freight lines with a new (~2 mile?) tunnel. It would give a large chunk of it as a distinct line - Barking Riverside to Hounslow. That way you kill quite a few birds with one stone - you will have clearance for the knitting, you will free up capacity on the NLL bottleneck between Gospel Oak and Willesden, you will remove freight from the MML south of Hendon (as it will be able to reach the Dudding Hill line from the GOBLin without conflict, but will still be able to access the slows north of Hendon), and conceivably (depending on routing) you could build a passenger interchange with Belsize Park, if desired. You appear to be determined to see a new tunnel in that part of London. I've lost track of your posts advocating it here and elsewhere. I am afraid you can wave goodbye to the R25 plan which was a magnificent piece of distractive flummery from the Boris Johnson era. There is no money. We have lost / are losing 5-7 years momentum from the end of the Johnson era to the enforced austerity of the current Mayor. The new Transport Strategy makes zero mention of any orbital railway investment - it's dead beyond GOBLIN electrification, the Riverside extension and the recent top up order of a few extra trains for the rest of Overground. As I have said before I will be astonished if the go ahead to CR2 commences this side of 2020 and as for the Bakerloo Line extension - forget it. The whole appraisal and funding environment has changed and is about to be squeezed again by the government. You've more chance of getting a Monty Python dead parrot to squawk that dig a freight tunnel in NW London. Sorry.  |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Dec 9, 2017 18:58:23 GMT
Can we stay on topic, this is about the GOBLIN electrification, not about ifs, buts and maybes. If we wanna dream about things, there are other threads about this. Thanks
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