gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
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Post by gantshill on Sept 27, 2015 20:58:12 GMT
Last week I spent a few days in Budapest. Like other holidays, I managed to take in various forms of public transport.
Each of the four metro lines are quite distinctive. Line 1, the oldest on mainland Europe, is just below the surface and most of the platforms still have a turn of the century feel, with bevelled white tiles. An overhead fixed rail provides the electricity.
The trains on lines 2 and 4 feel quite similar, although line 4 is operated without drivers (or obvious staff on board). There is a line of light around 50 cm from the platform edge (and on the platform itself) which displays different colours, but I couldn't work out quite how that was related to the arrival or presence of a train.
Line 3 rolling stock has a distinct Soviet-era feel to it. We ended up on the last northbound train on line 3, and when we got out of the train at Arpad Hid, there was a train stabled in the southbound platform. On lines 2, 3 and 4, from the platforms I could not see any conductor rail, only the running rails, but when we returned to the airport, I did catch sight of what looked like a third rail with bottom contact (rather like the DLR), perhaps the conductor rail is normally on the platform side of the train, rather than the opposite side as it normal in London.
I noticed that the escalators on the metro system travel noticeably faster than in London.
We also managed a trip on a cog railway (also known as tram route 60) and the children's railway, which was an enjoyable 45 minute journey through the Buda hills for Ft 700 (less than £2) each.
In the centre of Budapest, at Deak Ferenc Ter station there is a small but excellent metro museum about the building of Metro line 1. Some of the captions are in English, but the pictures and the rolling stock speak for themselves. It is well worth the Ft 350 (about 88 pence) entrance fee.
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Post by theblackferret on Sept 27, 2015 21:26:59 GMT
Last week I spent a few days in Budapest. Like other holidays, I managed to take in various forms of public transport. Each of the four metro lines are quite distinctive. Line 1, the oldest on mainland Europe, is just below the surface and most of the platforms still have a turn of the century feel, with bevelled white tiles. An overhead fixed rail provides the electricity. The trains on lines 2 and 4 feel quite similar, although line 4 is operated without drivers (or obvious staff on board). There is a line of light around 50 cm from the platform edge (and on the platform itself) which displays different colours, but I couldn't work out quite how that was related to the arrival or presence of a train. Line 3 rolling stock has a distinct Soviet-era feel to it. We ended up on the last northbound train on line 3, and when we got out of the train at Arpad Hid, there was a train stabled in the southbound platform. On lines 2, 3 and 4, from the platforms I could not see any conductor rail, only the running rails, but when we returned to the airport, I did catch sight of what looked like a third rail with bottom contact (rather like the DLR), perhaps the conductor rail is normally on the platform side of the train, rather than the opposite side as it normal in London. I noticed that the escalators on the metro system travel noticeably faster than in London. We also managed a trip on a cog railway (also known as tram route 60) and the children's railway, which was an enjoyable 45 minute journey through the Buda hills for Ft 700 (less than £2) each. In the centre of Budapest, at Deak Ferenc Ter station there is a small but excellent metro museum about the building of Metro line 1. Some of the captions are in English, but the pictures and the rolling stock speak for themselves. It is well worth the Ft 350 (about 88 pence) entrance fee. Thanks-for sharing this; another one for our holiday list, along with Moscow. |
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Post by Chris W on Sept 27, 2015 22:49:24 GMT
I spent an hour in that short platform length musuem a few years ago and wrote an article for Underground News...
I'll dig it out later this week;)
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 27, 2015 22:58:01 GMT
I have a brochure of the Underground museum published late 60's/early 70's IIRC. It gives a history of line 1 which had a very restricted headroom, about 2.5 metres, this was to enable the line to squeeze over and under various utilities.
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Post by geriatrix on Sept 28, 2015 8:35:51 GMT
Brings back memories. I remember seeking out the "Children's Railway", back in the seventies, when it was then called The Young Pioneers Railway, being operated by children who were members of the official Communist youth movement. We got there with some difficulty by public transport. We didn't pay any fares because we couldn't work out how to. The railway itself was a bizarre experience, lots of hammers and sickles and red flags. On the way back we dropped into a place to have something to eat, only to find out eventually that it was a state factory canteen. They fed us though! And no-one anywhere spoke much English, which is why we ended up buying 6 bottles of white vinegar to take back to the hotel. We thought it was mineral water. Often wondered what the maid thought of her six bottle "tip".
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Post by Chris W on Sept 28, 2015 16:48:12 GMT
I have a brochure of the Underground museum published late 60's/early 70's IIRC. It gives a history of line 1 which had a very restricted headroom, about 2.5 metres, this was to enable the line to squeeze over and under various utilities. I've got the brochure from the late noughies... would be interesting to compare sometime  I'll turn the starting handle of my desktop PC and try to find the original article... otherwise I'll find the item I wrote and seek permission to upload it   Published in Underground News (Number 584 August 2010) - permission obtained to scan the article, upload and share with grateful thanks I'll do my best to upload my images in the coming day or so to my Flickr account (they used to be on Fotopic)  |
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Post by androom on Sept 28, 2015 21:05:16 GMT
Hi Michael Those line of light on line 4's platforms is either indicating which direction is (orange eastbound, blue westbound) and indicating whether the train are approaching (starting to blink). That rolling stock on Line 3 produced by Metrowagonmash. - EV3 cars 1975 - 1979 - 81.717/714 cars 1980 - 1991 but few cars from 2000 On Line 3 few trains stabled on stations (Arpad hid and Ujpest Kozpont) and reversing sidings (between Nagyvarad ter and Nepliget, Arpad hid and Forgach utca, Ujpest Kozpont terminus). The conductor rails lines 2, 3 and 4 on stations all located on the platform side but instead of bottom its shoes top-contact. See here. According to what I found TfL's escalators travelling 0.75 m/s and those in Budapest 1 m/s. If you have any question about metro system in Budapest, feel free to ask. Cheers, Andras Last week I spent a few days in Budapest. Like other holidays, I managed to take in various forms of public transport. Each of the four metro lines are quite distinctive. Line 1, the oldest on mainland Europe, is just below the surface and most of the platforms still have a turn of the century feel, with bevelled white tiles. An overhead fixed rail provides the electricity. The trains on lines 2 and 4 feel quite similar, although line 4 is operated without drivers (or obvious staff on board). There is a line of light around 50 cm from the platform edge (and on the platform itself) which displays different colours, but I couldn't work out quite how that was related to the arrival or presence of a train. Line 3 rolling stock has a distinct Soviet-era feel to it. We ended up on the last northbound train on line 3, and when we got out of the train at Arpad Hid, there was a train stabled in the southbound platform. On lines 2, 3 and 4, from the platforms I could not see any conductor rail, only the running rails, but when we returned to the airport, I did catch sight of what looked like a third rail with bottom contact (rather like the DLR), perhaps the conductor rail is normally on the platform side of the train, rather than the opposite side as it normal in London. I noticed that the escalators on the metro system travel noticeably faster than in London. We also managed a trip on a cog railway (also known as tram route 60) and the children's railway, which was an enjoyable 45 minute journey through the Buda hills for Ft 700 (less than £2) each. In the centre of Budapest, at Deak Ferenc Ter station there is a small but excellent metro museum about the building of Metro line 1. Some of the captions are in English, but the pictures and the rolling stock speak for themselves. It is well worth the Ft 350 (about 88 pence) entrance fee. |
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Post by Chris W on Sept 28, 2015 21:34:27 GMT
I've uploaded the images of the Foldalatti Vasuti Muzeum that I captured back in May 2010... ENJOY |
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Post by grahamhewett on Sept 29, 2015 18:05:59 GMT
@chris W - Lovely photos - now why did I miss that museum when I visited Budapest/? BTW, the tram and trolleybus networks are good fun, too.
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Post by Alight on Sept 29, 2015 18:18:48 GMT
I travelled on the Budapest Metro system back in July and I agree with the opening post that the rolling stock on Line 3 have an ex-Soviet feel about them. The door closing alarms on them (and line 1) are most sinister in both their sound and red illumination.
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 29, 2015 19:03:12 GMT
The power collection system as stated above used an overhead third rail. The collector 'shoes' were not shoes at all but a pantograph similar to that used on the Snaefell Mountain Railway on the Isle of Man but in this case a lot lower due to the limited headroom and connected to the underframe instead of the roof. This can be seen in the photograph with Chris's article together with the overhead conductor rail. AFAIK the only other electric railway using an overhead third rail was in the Hudson River tunnels in New York after steam locomotives were banned, this was made necessary by water ingress into the tunnels and insufficient room for wire catenary.
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Post by kesmet on Sept 29, 2015 19:10:57 GMT
Doesn't the Barcelona Metro use an overhead third rail as well?
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gantshill
I had to change my profile pic!
Posts: 1,372
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Post by gantshill on Sept 29, 2015 20:09:08 GMT
... Those line of light on line 4's platforms is either indicating which direction is (orange eastbound, blue westbound) and indicating whether the train are approaching (starting to blink). ..... The conductor rails lines 2, 3 and 4 on stations all located on the platform side but instead of bottom its shoes top-contact. See here. .... Cheers, Andras I thought that there had to be an explanation for the coloured lights on line 4. Thanks for the picture of the conductor rails - I'm glad you were able to clarify that. It isn't something that I've come across before. |
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Post by androom on Sept 29, 2015 20:49:58 GMT
It's quite different than Snaefell Railway's pantograph.  The power collection system as stated above used an overhead third rail. The collector 'shoes' were not shoes at all but a pantograph similar to that used on the Snaefell Mountain Railway on the Isle of Man but in this case a lot lower due to the limited headroom and connected to the underframe instead of the roof. This can be seen in the photograph with Chris's article together with the overhead conductor rail. AFAIK the only other electric railway using an overhead third rail was in the Hudson River tunnels in New York after steam locomotives were banned, this was made necessary by water ingress into the tunnels and insufficient room for wire catenary. |
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Post by Hutch on Sept 29, 2015 21:04:42 GMT
If you look carefully at the museum photograph you will see that there are two overhead rails. This is a three phase AC electric service pioneered by Ganz in Hungary and was one of the systems looked at when electrification was first considered on the London underground*. It is a three phase delta; two of the phases being provided by the overheads, the third being the rails, which are of course, grounded. A similar system is used today in Rio de Janeiro on the Corcovado Rack Railway. *Graeme Bruce (1970) "Steam to Silver", pp.28-29. (Indeed, until Yerkes intervened on the side of caution it was, technically, the favoured method - who knows where we would have been now!) |
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Post by androom on Sept 30, 2015 9:29:57 GMT
As far as I know that line always used DC (nowadays it's 550V DC). Some cars has been preserved from old days and still in working conditions. See on video HERE |
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Post by phillw48 on Sept 30, 2015 10:13:16 GMT
As far as I know that line always used DC (nowadays it's 550V DC). Some cars has been preserved from old days and still in working conditions. See on video HEREI noticed from the film that the overhead third rail has now been replaced by wire. This has also involved replacement of the original collectors on the cars with a pantograph. The photograph posted by 'Androom' above appears to show the original collectors with the distinctive 'crossbow' tensioning springs that are not visible in the videos. It also states in the video that the original cars had been rebuilt several times including new bogies as late as the 1980's. The brochure I have shows the collector system as built with a fixed collector shoe just above the roof of the car and not a pantograph as now used. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 2:32:27 GMT
Hello, Quite nice to find such a thread popping up here – I live in Vienna and go to Budapest quite often, I also speak both German and Hungarian, so feel free to ask me about anything Budapest-related (or Vienna-related, for that matter) Yes, on the földalatti only DC was ever used. The original train protection system and cars remained in use until 1973. |
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 1, 2015 13:37:50 GMT
I wonder if any drawings/dimensions are available for these cars. I have an old bogie well wagon that could form the basis of a model.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 14:34:34 GMT
This is the only drawing I could find:  |
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 2, 2015 8:57:50 GMT
This is the only drawing I could find: Thank you, the drawings will be very useful. I noticed that there are several differences between different examples of the earlier cars, either from rebuilding or updating of the collector system and/or trucks. In the brochure I have there are several pictures of the cars when new and models thereof most of which display differences. Fortunately it also gives some basic dimensions so a model is possible. As for trucks one of the illustrations in my brochure shows a car fitted with tramcar type maximum traction trucks as fitted to the London E class trams. In fact the first line was intended to be a tramway but the authorities insisted on it being placed underground through the historic part of the city. That resulted in the low headroom to fit the line between underground services, principally a sewer that was beneath the line for much of its length, and the road surface. In fact it reminds me of the Kingsway tram subway more than anything else. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 3, 2015 20:57:32 GMT
Isn't Crossrail going to use an overhead rail in the tunnel sections? And the Trowse swing bridge in Norwich has such an arrangement as well. That external ironwork on the side of the Budapest cars - if it's energised it looks rather hazardous to any passengers alongside it at the platforms. Even if not - it will give you a nasty clip if you're standing too close. |
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 3, 2015 23:33:57 GMT
Isn't Crossrail going to use an overhead rail in the tunnel sections? And the Trowse swing bridge in Norwich has such an arrangement as well. That external ironwork on the side of the Budapest cars - if it's energised it looks rather hazardous to any passengers alongside it at the platforms. Even if not - it will give you a nasty clip if you're standing too close. They are late Victorian/early Edwardian in date, before anyone thought of H&S. With the platforms only a few inches above the rails a normal third rail could be even more dangerous. |
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