Suspended due to signal failure

Total system failure Canary Wharf-Stratford, Jubilee Control Centre unable to see trains or signals.
Although trains kept running in other areas, Network Control Centre decided to broadcast Line suspension message.

I'm shocked, I would have expected there to be a good service somewhere!

Sounds like a VCC failure if that was the suspension. Can't remember exactly, but seem to remember being told that this only happens once every 7 years or so when I spent time in Neasden SCC.

I've heard it all now . . .

It's always "interesting" how so many trains seem to enter service at times like 11:59, or be withdrawn from service at 12:01.

Meanwhile, when planning cancellations, it's often the case that cancellations are arranged on the basis of avoiding trains which should be in service at snapshot times, rather than which trains will cause the least impact to the passenger.

This is why, sadly, I take it with a pinch of salt whenever any press release comes out boasting about "improved reliability" or such like.

The technology is there to ensure these figures are accurate, but unfortunately the process in place to monitor shapshots (conveniently?) seems to rely on honesty.

A sad state of affairs.

Complete nonsense. The system was purchased by Tube Lines in the days of PPP when their profit stream was based on performance so they would not have been "sucked in by razzle dazzle" and ignored whether or not they would achieve the required performance. The Jubilee line has had its well publicised ups and down but the system reliability is generally very good indeed and the line's performance scores are dramatically better than a few years ago.



If you have any evidence for that disgraceful and unwarranted assertion then please put it forward.

Returning to the OP the cause was a VCC halt - reason unknown as yet - and only affected the Canary Wharf to Stratford area. Trains continued to run on the rest of the line; albeit slowed up by the need to reverse at Canary Wharf and elsewhere. Why a line suspension was advertised i don't know - it hasn't been in similar instances before.

I would echo these sentiments. In my experience, the Jubilee line is much quicker than the Bakerloo.

I'd go as far as saying that the Jubilee is now extremely reliable, I generally find it a pleasure to use on a daily basis. Only twice in the past two years has a service disruption forced me to take an alternative route when I intended to use the Jubilee. Granted, when things go wrong then it normally causes a complete hold up until the source of the problem is rectified, but that is just the way it has to be now with the ATC system.

The only thing currently holding the line back from operating over 30tph is the size of the fleet, which in all truth, probably isn't quite big enough even for the 30tph service. The 96TS certainly aren't Improving in reliability, as they get a heavy workload put on them, it certainly isn't uncommon for the Jubilee to have cancellations due to the rolling stock. One morning back in May, they cancelled 7 trains in the morning peak, but still managed to maintain a 'good service' but one suspects that it probably wasn't truthfully 'good'. Obviously TfL have plans in place to eventually increase the service up to 36tph by increasing the size of the fleet as has been discussed on here before.

I'd also be very surprised if 36tph could be run with the current tipping out at Willesden Green and Wembley Park blocking the road. Stanmore is over provided as it is, let alone with even more trains potentially being sent up there so don't think that is the answer but it may be the only feasible option.

Again, during my time at Neasden SCC I was told that 38tph has once been run, and is the current 'record'. It was apparently achieved during service recovery, but no idea if this is true or not. Considering the position of who told me, I'd be surprised if it wasn't. It was also mentioned that if the fleet size were to be increased, it would be difficult to find somewhere to put the extra trains, as there isn't currently much free stabling space. The general consensus seemed to be that increasing capacity at Stanmore is the most likely option, as the Met would if anything prefer to have less Jubilee trains in Neasden rather than more, and not really much more that can be done at SMD.

An interesting observation - I wonder what makes you say that? There's certainly a lot that can go wrong with good old-fashioned colour-light signalling - even something as simple as a lamp failure. There are a lot of moving parts with traditional systems and the fact that TBTC does away with a lot of line side assets should certainly help reduce its fragility. It also has quite a bit of redundancy, e.g. the two VOBCs (Vehicle On Board Controllers) on every train and the three computers that make up each VCC (Vehicle Control Centre).

One of the weak points, of course, is the two orange wires, which are a wee bit too cut-through-able. Having said that, each loop can apparently "sustain a flat-bottom rail being dropped on it from 2 metres in height, people walking on it, rain, etc." (The Jubilee Line Upgrade - LURS)


Again, I'm not entirely sure I can agree with this. One of the problems, though, is that - as has been mentioned - most of the eggs are distributed among very few baskets. Also, the way that the system works is quite 'all or nothing'. In the old days, failures tended to be actually fairly common, but more confined. With TBTC, the system works by frequent (once per second) communication between all trains in an area and the VCC responsible. The trains send information, such as their position, to the VCC. It then sends instructions to the trains. Because the VCC knows where the trains are, it can calculate the appropriate speed for each train to travel at to keep them all a safe distance apart. If one train falls off the system, then it (the train) has no way of knowing where other trains in the area or, or how fast it is permitted to travel. This means that it has to be restricted to 17.5 kph and driven on line of sight, until it can re-enter the system. If, however, the VCC fails, well then you have a bit more of a problem, because the whole basis of the system goes out of the window (communication between the trains and the VCC). Then everyone has to be restricted to 17.5 kph. Because VCCs look after quite big areas, it can mean disruption to quite a large area. But such disruption is quite rare, as we've said already.


Hmmm, "slow" seems a strange choice of adjective to me. Line speeds on the Jubilee are actually really quite high. I'm not sure what the average line speed is - nor the maximum - but I can tell you that the Working Time Table lists off-peak running time as 57 minutes in the northbound direction. This is a distance of 38.03 km and so that's an average speed of 40 kph which is about 25 mph. By way of comparison the entire length of the Bakerloo line is 23.23 km and the off-peak running time is 48 minutes in the northbound direction. So that's an average speed of 29 kph, which is about 18 mph. The Vic really does shift, mind you.

One thing you may have been noticing - as has also already been mentioned - is that the Seltrac system currently uses quite a low brake rate in the open sections. This is a precautionary measure against station overruns, intended for conditions of low adhesion. At the present time, the brake rate for the open sections is always left at a gentle setting, even though the system is capable of stopping more quickly in good conditions. This is a bit of a nuisance.

It's not really got much to do with the platform edge doors, though, which shouldn't represent much of a problem for Auto. Indeed, we managed fine with them when we had manual driving as well. You do need to be accurate, for obvious reasons. But then, there are a number of CSDE loops on the network which aren't exactly as long as a canoe, either. According to the Video125 Driver's Eye View, one must stop accurately to within half a metre, which is very much possible for Auto and human alike, without taking an inordinately long time. Video125 have been known to make mistakes, though, and half a metre sounds very generous, though I guess it must surely equate to 25 cm either side of the ideal stopping point, which seems fair.

Another thing to bare in mind is the relative busy-ness of stations. Busier stations means longer dwell times (or very unhappy passengers), quieter stations means shorter dwell times.


This is quite true. As Rob Curling puts it:


It's worth noting that they were not provided at the overground stations on the extension, nor were they retrofitted to any other part of the line.

However, the PTI (Platform Train Interface) is where most incidents on the tube occur and PEDs are being increasingly looked at as an important potential solution. I am not actually, personally, a huge fan of PEDs, but if they keep accidents down, then that's a very important factor to keep in mind. It's not just bad behaviour that causes PTI incidents!

I think @tridentalx - who has a lot of experience with  the system - has made some very fair comments, however, we like to be a bit more accommodating and friendly, especially towards newer members.

I'm very glad to have you here, I just need you to remember that there are a number of experienced railway professionals here. This site prides itself on being the premier place for serious, informed discussion about London Underground (and a few other railways in London as well). We don't generally go for conspiracy theories here. If you remember that simple rule, I'm sure you'll do just fine. As you can probably tell from a few avatars, there are plenty of people here who share your appreciation for the traditional, older aspects of LU.

And, you know, for what it's worth, I'm going to have to go against the grain here. I don't personally relish the present Jubilee line experience much. Bring back the tripcock? Sadly, I think that horse has well and truly bolted.

Yes the Jubilee line may be faster but it has't got many 20 mph curves like the Bakerloo line has and also the station spacing is closer in the tube section of the Bakerloo line.

My understanding is that it took something like 15 minutes to bring the VCC back up which is about what I would expect. Agreed if there are lots of TSRs or other restrictions this could take longer. The time consuming part can be re-entering all the trains onto the system. This will be quicker with the radio technology used for SSR.