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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 15, 2015 1:22:18 GMT
Bit of an unexpected working today - a D78 unit (7118+7029) has run (out of service) to Amersham where it is stabled until further notice. Due to the ongoing industrial action it has been decided to remove the unit from Upminster to increase capacity for S7 maintenance, which is, apparently, easier & faster than that on the Ds. Here it is running through King's Cross at 2011. Apologies for the picture quality, I had a short notice tip-off and didn't have my SLR with me. At least I was on my meal break! Big thanks to everyone who tipped me off with news of the move, and later on filled in the blanks (There were a lot of blanks), particularly the Met LIS who couldn't have been more accommodating.  7118 - King's Cross St. Pancras by Jack Gordon, on Flickr |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 1:34:14 GMT
Thanks for the pic!
So they've put it on 32 road? Does that not reduce flexibility on the Met a li'l? I was certainly under the impression that, during the peaks, both sidings are regularly occupied for short periods. I wonder if we'll see some reversing off of platform 2, or other juggling up at Amersham.
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Post by MoreToJack on Aug 15, 2015 1:47:23 GMT
Thanks for the pic! So they've put it on 32 road? Does that not reduce flexibility on the Met a li'l? I was certainly under the impression that, during the peaks, both sidings are regularly occupied for short periods. I wonder if we'll see some reversing off of platform 2, or other juggling up at Amersham. So I understand - I've only had "confirmation" from TrackerNet so far, but I expect someone will be up later today with a pic(!). My friends on the Met expect it'll see some reversing off platform 2, although this has been fairly common anyway recently as one of the sidings at Amersham has been out of use (not sure why). Certainly an interesting sight, though - and a lovely change to constant S stock! |
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Post by howda62 on Aug 15, 2015 7:35:14 GMT
Firstly, Hi everyone. Long term reader of this forum, I recently joined to also be able to contribute when possible.
I've just been to grab the morning paper and can confirm there's a D stock in the first siding at Amersham.
(I hope these links work.)
 P1190685sml by David Howells, on Flickr
Larger photos here
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Post by domh245 on Aug 15, 2015 14:12:42 GMT
I'm surprised that it was running with 010 as it's running number! Surely it should have had a 7XX number?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 15, 2015 15:06:28 GMT
I'm surprised that it was running with 010 as it's running number! Surely it should have had a 7XX number? The train was running as T10 19.02 Wimbledon-Tower Hill pfm.2 (arr. 19.48). At Tower Hill the train was instead routed into pfm.3 and withdrawn from passenger service. It was then extended, empty, to Whitechapel pfm.1 and quickly reversed onto the WB. It ran empty via Baker Street, Wembley Park pfm.1, Harrow-on-the-Hill pfm.1 (20.38), arriving Amersham pfm.2 21.04. Into 32 siding and stabled. |
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Post by mb2014 on Aug 15, 2015 15:25:42 GMT
Is 7118-7029 permanently withdrawn or is a return to passenger service expected?
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Post by johnb2 on Aug 15, 2015 15:48:40 GMT
Presumably a conductor driver was required for the journey over the Met 'mainline'? I am assuming that 'D' qualified drivers do not normally work the northern side of the Circle or if some do have tht route knowlewdge that it would be rare for one to know the way north from Baker Street!
So a conductor from Aldgate East or Gt Portland Street?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 16:39:16 GMT
They don't. I was thinking just that, and you can see two people in the cab there. However, had this move been planned well in advance, I'm sure they could've used one of the test drivers who can go anywhere on anything. Doesn't look like that's what happened this time, though, but I'd be interested to hear more from someone who knows about how and why this trip was organised.
By the way, I think Circle and Hammersmith drivers can go all the way to Harrow-on-the-Hill, can't they? I'd guess that a swap took place there.
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Post by Harsig on Aug 15, 2015 17:10:25 GMT
By the way, I think Circle and Hammersmith drivers can go all the way to Harrow-on-the-Hill, can't they? I'd guess that a swap took place there. I don't think Circle and Hammersmith drivers ever go north of Baker Street. |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 15, 2015 18:06:59 GMT
I thought I'd heard something about a select few drivers being trained to run trains (OOS?) between Neasden Depot and Baker Street. Either that or being trained on the junction and platforms 2 & 3 at Baker Street.
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Post by roythebus on Aug 15, 2015 19:41:35 GMT
Neasden and Ricky men used to work the Circle; Parsons Green me used to work the Circle on Sundays, but didn't sign Aldgate East-Liverpool Street. Baker Street men used to do the whole of the Met/H&C/Circle. Don't know about these days!
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Post by North End on Aug 16, 2015 8:49:37 GMT
Neasden and Ricky men used to work the Circle; Parsons Green me used to work the Circle on Sundays, but didn't sign Aldgate East-Liverpool Street. Baker Street men used to do the whole of the Met/H&C/Circle. Don't know about these days! Nowadays it's the case that no one signs more than their own line(s) - indeed on some lines some depots don't even know all moves, for example on the Northern Line only Golders Green drivers know Edgware Depot, and on the Picc I think I'm right that Arnos Grove drivers won't do Northfields Depot coming in from the Boston Manor end. Having said that, I believe SSR Instructor Operators have recently started having an extended route knowledge, for example some District Line I/Os know the C&H. Is this correct? |
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Post by howda62 on Aug 16, 2015 10:28:14 GMT
It will be interesting to see how the trains are reversed now in the peaks, though if as MoreToJack says, one siding has been out of use recently I guess the situation is already well rehearsed.
As a slight side point I recall back in 2000 that a timetable change (not sure if May or September) saw most (all?) weekend met trains reverse in the platforms rather than using the sidings. I initially thought it was a temporary measure for a few weekends but it carried on permanently, hence I assume timetabled. At this time Amersham had 2pth fasts to Aldgate, 2tph semi-fasts to Baker Street and 2tph Chilterns (1tph Sundays + the 1tph Amersham-Aylesbury pm shuttle). As I recall the scheduled operation on a Saturday seemed to be: A northbound Chiltern would pull into Platform 1 and go on its way. The next met train to arrive would then go into platform 1 and reverse back south before the next Chiltern was due. The second met train meanwhile would pull into platform 2 for its reversal. It somehow made the station feel much busier than with regular turnarounds through the sidings. I expect it kept the signallers busier as well in times of even slight disruption.
This platform reversal procedure at weekends carried on until 2002, though in May 2001 the timetable reduced the 4tph met trains to just 2tph Baker Street fasts, so easier to manage. I never understood why this platform reversal procedure came in, I think the sidings were used as normal during weekdays (or at least the peaks).
Back to the main point, in the current peak timetable there's a max of 4 met trains per hour from/to Amersham so one siding should seemingly cope. It could be interesting if the Chesham branch gets blocked for some reason, and those trains divert to Amersham. That's one fairly recent reason I have seen trains together in both of the north sidings. I guess severe disruption could now more likely mean trains terminated at Rickmansworth.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 10:58:42 GMT
Would it not have been possible to stable it into 34 road so that 32 and 31 could operate normally?
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Post by Harsig on Aug 16, 2015 11:29:58 GMT
Would it not have been possible to stable it into 34 road so that 32 and 31 could operate normally? No. Distinct lack of conductor rails. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 16, 2015 15:39:47 GMT
Would it not have been possible to stable it into 34 road so that 32 and 31 could operate normally? No. Distinct lack of conductor rails. Nothing a battery loco couldn't overcome, but that would presumably have required a lot more planning (among other things). |
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Post by jetblast787 on Aug 16, 2015 20:54:59 GMT
As I agree some flexibility has been lost, its not a disaster for Amersham. I was on the TRV last week and we did a mainline shunt from the Down main to the Up main via P1 or 2 (Can't remember which). Only thing service control will need to look out for is the 4 mins the drivers have (but take longer I'm sure!) to change ends, even in the S Stock!
It might confuse some commuters who are used to trains dep from P3, but they'll get over it!
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Post by decaded on Aug 16, 2015 22:36:31 GMT
My understanding is,following the move from Whitechapel last week,is that there are currently more S stocks on the District than places to put them.
So about 5 D stocks are looking for a place to hide....currently 1x Amersham,1x Dagenham East Siding. All suggestions gratefully received apparently !
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Post by kesmet on Aug 16, 2015 22:47:10 GMT
South Harrow sidings? After all, there's been some space recently freed up there. And it might just prove that a subsurface stock of at least some kind can actually run on the branch!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 22:58:46 GMT
West Ham siding, Acton Works
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 22:59:36 GMT
South Harrow sidings? After all, there's been some space recently freed up there. And it might just prove that a subsurface stock of at least some kind can actually run on the branch! Only S stock is baned from North Ealing to Rayners Lane |
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Post by Colin on Aug 16, 2015 23:31:03 GMT
Having said that, I believe SSR Instructor Operators have recently started having an extended route knowledge, for example some District Line I/Os know the C&H. Is this correct? First I've heard of such a suggestion. I can certainly see Circle/H&C/District drivers being trained on all S7 routes in the future but that's nothing more than a baseless rumour at present. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 16, 2015 23:38:21 GMT
All suggestions gratefully received apparently ! Ealing Broadway sidings x2 before they go |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 23:40:32 GMT
There's four sidings at Acton Town, perhaps one of them could be spared.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 23:41:55 GMT
All suggestions gratefully received apparently ! Ealing Broadway sidings x2 before they go All decommissioned |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 17, 2015 0:14:40 GMT
Long Marston for the DMs and trailers, Rotherham for the UNDMs?
Seeing as once you've hidden your D stocks across the network, you're probably not going to be running them in service again! Did the sale to vivarail stipulate them moving on certain dates, or could LU just drop them on vivarail/booths with minimal notice
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 6:31:03 GMT
My understanding is,following the move from Whitechapel last week,is that there are currently more S stocks on the District than places to put them. So about 5 D stocks are looking for a place to hide....currently 1x Amersham,1x Dagenham East Siding. All suggestions gratefully received apparently ! Strictly speaking there are more trains on the line (i.e. D and S combined). Four spaces had already been identified to stable the 4 D stocks displaced by S stocks in the last 10 days or so. Amersham and Dagenham make it 6 so I think there is no issue here. |
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Post by North End on Aug 17, 2015 7:44:12 GMT
No. Distinct lack of conductor rails. Nothing a battery loco couldn't overcome, but that would presumably have required a lot more planning (among other things). As long as the gradient is not unfavourable, there is the possibility of coasting a train in to a dead siding. Can potentially get it back out using jumper leads, although this would potentially take some time in this situation, so would almost certainly have to happen overnight. |
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Post by North End on Aug 17, 2015 7:50:49 GMT
It will be interesting to see how the trains are reversed now in the peaks, though if as MoreToJack says, one siding has been out of use recently I guess the situation is already well rehearsed.
As a slight side point I recall back in 2000 that a timetable change (not sure if May or September) saw most (all?) weekend met trains reverse in the platforms rather than using the sidings. I initially thought it was a temporary measure for a few weekends but it carried on permanently, hence I assume timetabled. At this time Amersham had 2pth fasts to Aldgate, 2tph semi-fasts to Baker Street and 2tph Chilterns (1tph Sundays + the 1tph Amersham-Aylesbury pm shuttle). As I recall the scheduled operation on a Saturday seemed to be: A northbound Chiltern would pull into Platform 1 and go on its way. The next met train to arrive would then go into platform 1 and reverse back south before the next Chiltern was due. The second met train meanwhile would pull into platform 2 for its reversal. It somehow made the station feel much busier than with regular turnarounds through the sidings. I expect it kept the signallers busier as well in times of even slight disruption.
This platform reversal procedure at weekends carried on until 2002, though in May 2001 the timetable reduced the 4tph met trains to just 2tph Baker Street fasts, so easier to manage. I never understood why this platform reversal procedure came in, I think the sidings were used as normal during weekdays (or at least the peaks).
Back to the main point, in the current peak timetable there's a max of 4 met trains per hour from/to Amersham so one siding should seemingly cope. It could be interesting if the Chesham branch gets blocked for some reason, and those trains divert to Amersham. That's one fairly recent reason I have seen trains together in both of the north sidings. I guess severe disruption could now more likely mean trains terminated at Rickmansworth.
The advantage of going off the platform is a quicker turnround, as well as removing the need to detrain via porter buttons - giving the train and the driver extra time. The other benefit is the driver has better opportunity to access facilities such as tea point and toilets. |
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