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Post by superteacher on Jul 29, 2015 11:11:52 GMT
It's interesting to see how travel patterns have changed in recent years. The morning peak, although more concentrated than the evening, seems to drag on for much longer. The Central line from Mile End towards the city is still rammed well after 9am. A few years ago, there was a huge drop off, and the service went from 30 tph to 10 tph in the space of 20 mins or so! The evening peak now seems to start a little later than a few years ago, and seems to drag on for ages.
Would be good to get the views of others, especially those who have commuted in the past.
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 29, 2015 11:58:05 GMT
superteacher - not only has the interpeak filled up somewhat but the morning peak starts so much earlier, and as you say, people work later. Until Big Bang in the City, the morning peak covered a fairly gentlemanly 0730- 0930, now even the very early trains from further out are full to standing after about 06.30 (For example, on our line, there are no seats available south of Godalming after 06.45). Run faster, rats! Glad to have retired...
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 29, 2015 14:24:32 GMT
superteacher - not only has the interpeak filled up somewhat but the morning peak starts so much earlier, and as you say, people work later. Until Big Bang in the City, the morning peak covered a fairly gentlemanly 0730- 0930, now even the very early trains from further out are full to standing after about 06.30 (For example, on our line, there are no seats available south of Godalming after 06.45). Run faster, rats! Glad to have retired... I took early retirement in December 2008 & even though the last post was just 7 minutes walk away from home, I don't miss it one iota. Still see people from my time there, down at Tesco most lunch-hours, and even those 20 years younger than me have not aged as well as I have. Must be joining this equitable and esteemed site that did the trick, eh  ? On our last three stays in London, we've Travellodged (might not be a word, but definitely an experience!) at Uxbridge, Twickenham & Croydon & I have utilised the first & last smokes of the day to observe commuting habits at all three stations. The latter two fell completely into your morning observations, Uxbridge's fell earlier, I suspect, as it's further out. Uxbridge around 11pm was moderately busy; the other two were still thrashing with disembarking commuters at that time. The more it goes on, the worse it will get, I suspect, so we are not missing out on very much. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 29, 2015 17:44:57 GMT
theblackferret - and one can see how one's children are under all sorts of work pressures that one never encountered a generation ago but without the job security. The lengthening of the peak in the morning is making services with very long recycling times such as TLK a nightmare - no sooner have you started to get the first of the peaks back to a maintenance site, c 10.30 (last c11.30) than you are beginning to think about running out the first of the evening peaks c14.30/15.00 - a very short maintenance window. A propos suburban Travllodges and similar, we made the mistake once of thinking that we could gain an hour or two in bed when leaving LHR on an early flight by staying the night before in a travel Lodge near the airport. Not only do you gain nothing as the airport shuttles don't start that early, but you have all the unexcitement of staying in a grotty hotel beforehand - not to be repeated - known in our household as the holiday in Hounslow ...
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 29, 2015 19:17:43 GMT
theblackferret - and one can see how one's children are under all sorts of work pressures that one never encountered a generation ago but without the job security. The lengthening of the peak in the morning is making services with very long recycling times such as TLK a nightmare - no sooner have you started to get the first of the peaks back to a maintenance site, c 10.30 (last c11.30) than you are beginning to think about running out the first of the evening peaks c14.30/15.00 - a very short maintenance window. A propos suburban Travllodges and similar, we made the mistake once of thinking that we could gain an hour or two in bed when leaving LHR on an early flight by staying the night before in a travel Lodge near the airport. Not only do you gain nothing as the airport shuttles don't start that early, but you have all the unexcitement of staying in a grotty hotel beforehand - not to be repeated - known in our household as the holiday in Hounslow ... Job security probably has (arch.) on its' OED entry now. I suspect the day will fairly shortly dawn (more's the pity) when everything from a traffic manager's point of view will merge into one long peak period from one day through to the next. What fun! I suspect WH Davies would probably be denounced in the House as a bad influence on the young if he wrote Leisure today. And Wordsworth would probably be run into by a lycra-clad goon about three words into Composed Upon Westminster Bridge. As to Travel Lodge-Croydon, warned in advance of noise because of city location-no disturbances whatever, despite at least a dozen different ethnicities staying there, all generations of whom were mainly addicted to free late-night wifi. Uxbridge, not 50 yards from the Tube, but with an all-night bus garage in between-fine, once we'd mastered night one & the fact that buses now reverse with a noise approximate to a demented seagull desperately searching out a chippy. Twickenham-right by the station, baking hot September, mercifully on the 9th floor. Suddenly realised on night three why the decelerating and particularly the accelerating of SW Train units was blissfully familiar-Night Of The Demon used that looped through a tape recorder, spliced and re-amplified to produce the sound of the Fire Demon as it's being summoned up by Dr Julian Karswell, portrayed by Niall MacGuiniss. Unfortunately, we didn't notice the impending works poster-the last night they were digging up & relaying track, starting at 11.30pm & finishing about 6.30am. Win some, lose some. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 30, 2015 8:29:22 GMT
theblackferret - "Uxbridge, not 50 yards from the Tube, but with an all-night bus garage in between-fine, once we'd mastered night one & the fact that buses now reverse with a noise approximate to a demented seagull desperately searching out a chippy." Yes, once made the mistake of booking into a hotel in St Enoch's Square Glasgow. Nice and quiet when i went to bed, but then the noise started - it turned out that St Enoch's Square was then the centre of the night bus network so every half hour, we had Leyland engines, with their throaty roar, being revved ready for the trip to Hillhead or whatever. BTW I notice a Holiday Inn in Croydon - do many, do you think, have their holidays there?
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Post by stapler on Jul 30, 2015 10:17:41 GMT
In the 70s, I always reckoned the 0909 fast 9-car train from Chingford to LV was the first off=peak; I could mostly guarantee one of the small "compartments" for 22 in the unrefurbished 305s to myself. Off peak returns started at 0930. The 1832 ex LV was the last crammed return train.
Peak must now extend till about 2030, and later morning trains are nearly as bad as pre-0900 ones. I noticed this change in the 90s, when I often used to return Essexwards on the Central Line, and within a few years, those trains leaving central London between 8 and 10pm also became rammed. LU were rather late in expanding the peak shoulders, though..
Like GH I am glad to be retired....
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 30, 2015 15:02:34 GMT
theblackferret - "Uxbridge, not 50 yards from the Tube, but with an all-night bus garage in between-fine, once we'd mastered night one & the fact that buses now reverse with a noise approximate to a demented seagull desperately searching out a chippy." Yes, once made the mistake of booking into a hotel in St Enoch's Square Glasgow. Nice and quiet when i went to bed, but then the noise started - it turned out that St Enoch's Square was then the centre of the night bus network so every half hour, we had Leyland engines, with their throaty roar, being revved ready for the trip to Hillhead or whatever. BTW I notice a Holiday Inn in Croydon - do many, do you think, have their holidays there? Being Glasgow, do they put McEwan's Export in the buses for fuel to produce that throatiness-I assume, as it's export, it must be lager unfit for consumption by any self-respecting Caledonian and true Glaswegian? Or was it the ghosts of the past that echoed, seeing that the closure of St Enoch & subsequent demolition of its' Scottish Baronial-style station was on a par with the Euston Arch for architectural vandalism? I know Edinburgh's Princes Street station used to have 37 destinations on its' board in the 1930's, and rush hours then, which would have included the Tinto Express to Peebles, must have been quite something, although I suspect anyone using the Northern Line would have scoffed at that as merely a five-minute flapadoodle. BTW-yes, Croydon is actually a good base for London, Brighton, Tunbridge Wells etc., though you'll be pushed to find a single good reason to send holiday postcards from Croydon itself, unless the folks back home don't know a tram from a trombone. |
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Post by grahamhewett on Jul 30, 2015 15:46:33 GMT
theblackferret - now I suspect you didn't spend your youth in RT-land; the RTLs were always easily distinguished, even before they hoved into sight, from the AEC fleet by their gutsy roar, compared with the AEC purr. back on topic, I think the biggest collapse in off peak service in the '70s and '80s was on the Euston-Watford dc services. At one time, punters north of Willesden had 4 tph o/p on each of the Euston, Broad Street and Bakerloo services. Now, north of Harrow, a measly 3 tph.
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Post by theblackferret on Jul 30, 2015 19:23:43 GMT
theblackferret - now I suspect you didn't spend your youth in RT-land; the RTLs were always easily distinguished, even before they hoved into sight, from the AEC fleet by their gutsy roar, compared with the AEC purr. back on topic, I think the biggest collapse in off peak service in the '70s and '80s was on the Euston-Watford dc services. At one time, punters north of Willesden had 4 tph o/p on each of the Euston, Broad Street and Bakerloo services. Now, north of Harrow, a measly 3 tph. There was also quite a compaction of off-peaks on all 3 lines to/from Dartford, mostly in the 70's & 80's. Went from 3 tph to 2 and sometimes even just one for quieter stations. Granted, those were always seen as purely commuting routes, but I'm not sure those previous levels have been regenerated as yet. Additionally, the Thameslink corridor, for want of a better expression, seems to've built back some off-peak services into the Central/SE bit part of SR. And neither Watford nor Dartford seem to benefit much from Thameslink? |
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