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Post by Admin Team on Jul 21, 2005 19:01:35 GMT
You are all important contributors to this forum, and I (and Solidbond and AlanL too) value your opinions and input.
When this forum was created I deliberately left it as 'open' to individuals as to whether they formally registered or not before they posted.
One or two recent events, both on this forum and, more importantly, in London have prompted me to question whether this policy should be changed.
If the decision is taken to change this will NOT prevent anyone viewing this forum, after all I hope we agree that we want to encourage new members to participate, but simply that those who express views and opinions have at least some 'accountability' for the views they express.
The last thing I want is for this to be a 'closed' forum - that smacks of elitism, and destroys everything that this forum syands for.
I (sorry, we) need to make a decision quite quickly on this. Can I please ask for your votes and comments at the earliest opportunity. I propose leaving this open until close of traffic on 23 July when I'll try to get of the fence!
Thanks all,
Dave
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 19:06:28 GMT
I think we should, It makes the job alot more easier for you and solid.
If someone were to be stupid with a guest accoutn, you can't do anything. if they have a real account you can ban their I.P straight off.
Also we all get to know eachother better as members, guests seem to just 'lurk'
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 19:17:11 GMT
Registration is the way forward. I think DS has hit the nail on the head.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 19:23:25 GMT
Yup, I'm in agreement with DS and David5032. The 'Yes' box gets my vote.  |
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Post by q8 on Jul 21, 2005 19:24:24 GMT
Yes registration is the best thing. That way no-one can hide behind anonimity and everyone is accountable to his fellows. Fractious people like this Bill geezer won't be able to do their muck raking and such whilst cowardly hiding behind a mask. If that sounds strong then it's because it's meant to be. If you cant stand up with pride and be counted like a man then you've no place here.
EDIT: I might add that real names are not needed to post items. A psuedonym will do. But at least your real identity will be on record to the admins if you register should you post anything out-of-line.
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Jul 21, 2005 19:29:19 GMT
Seeing recent events there seems no alternative.
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Post by chris on Jul 21, 2005 19:33:00 GMT
I think people should sign up. All they need to do is put in an e-mail address, name and password and they're done! Easy!
Plus, it's like introducing yourself rather than butting in!
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Post by piccadillypilot on Jul 21, 2005 19:33:21 GMT
My own view is that an open forum is preferable since there are people with something to contribute who (for whatever reason) don't want to go through the rigmarole of sigining up.
However, needs must when the devil drives, if (as it always is) a very small minority can't show some common sense and want to take on the role of a tabloid newspaper then closed it must become. It needn't be a permamnt feature.
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Post by compsci on Jul 21, 2005 19:35:40 GMT
I think Q8 says pretty much everything I would with regards to people hiding (modulo language).
With respect to the (hopefully extremely theoretical) concept of banning people, unfortunately it's nowhere near as simple as you'd think, especially with many ISPs using dynamic IP addresses. Admin auditing of new user requests would be better, if a little annoying. But as I said I'm hopefully talking about something which will never happen.
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Post by q8 on Jul 21, 2005 19:40:09 GMT
especially with many ISPs using dynamic IP addresses.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
They do indeed but you also need an email address to register and that rarely changes
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Post by compsci on Jul 21, 2005 19:52:00 GMT
There are many services out there that allow you to create "disposable" email addresses, with the intention that they are used to register for things like the live timings of F1 races, where registration serves no purpose to the user other to be annoying (and when BugMeNot doesn't work). They addresses in question hang around for a day or so before being destroyed. They only recieve email for obvious reasons.
Of course these could also be used for purposes other than which they are intended, the net result being an infinite supply of email addresses.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 21:03:54 GMT
I think it is somewhat sad that we are having to have this discussion, but, enevitably, it was going to happen sooner or later.
One of the things I have enjoyed most about this forum it how 'open' it has been. There has been a lot of thought provoking, even about very sensitive issues. I think it is credit to all the admins and regulars who make this forum what it is - thanks to you all. It has also been great for me, as an 'enthusiast' rather than an employee, to be warmly welcomed and able to join in and share with you all.
DS, Q8 and others have raised a very valid point about accountability - if signing up enforces this then I'm all for it. I'm not afraid of being accountable for what I say. Even when people have wildly differing opinions on things we have all been able to discuss them in an adultly manner. This, I think, has to be protected at all costs - its what makes this forum infinitely better than any of the others I've ever used.
Thanks once again to everyone for making the forum an enjoyable and interesting place to be. Long may it continue!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2005 21:11:38 GMT
I think Q8 says pretty much everything I would with regards to people hiding (modulo language). With respect to the (hopefully extremely theoretical) concept of banning people, unfortunately it's nowhere near as simple as you'd think, especially with many ISPs using dynamic IP addresses. Admin auditing of new user requests would be better, if a little annoying. But as I said I'm hopefully talking about something which will never happen. Then ll Dave would have to do is contact their internet provider and they will have their internet removed. |
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Post by compsci on Jul 21, 2005 22:08:07 GMT
Unless someone is breaking real laws, or their ISP's user agreement, which mainly covers things like sending spam, most service providers will just ignore complains about the activities of their users, and they will never reveal their real identity without a court order (hence the RIAA in the US suing "John Doe" for music sharing).
This assumes you could find out someone's ISP in the first place, which is far harder than it sounds unless someone makes no attempt whatsoever to hide it.
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Post by antharro on Jul 22, 2005 0:42:40 GMT
You got my vote! :-)
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Post by russe on Jul 22, 2005 2:15:34 GMT
'scuse me for being thick, but I can't discover any difference in respect of posting messages between the requirements stated by the Proboards system for a 'guest' and a 'registered member'. Both parties merely have to supply a name, a password and a working e-mail address.
I must be missing something obvious here!
Russ
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Post by igelkotten on Jul 22, 2005 2:55:32 GMT
I can only concur with RussE and CompSci:
Registration is by no means a guarantee of accountability. Anyone can use either a disposable mail adress service, or sign up for a anonymous webmail account.
And while I do not know exactly how the banning mechanisms on ProBoards work, there are several very easy ways to circumvent an IP ban, let alone a user ID ban.
The only advantage as I can see it for a registration requirement is that it might be an extra layer of protection for District Dave, in that he can show that he has acted in good faith. Which can, of course, be a very good thing indeed when the brown stufff comes into close proximity of the ventilator.
But we should not fool ourselves into believing that a user registration is the same thing as accountability.
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Post by yellowsignal on Jul 22, 2005 6:18:46 GMT
I voted agains, but i will fully understand if you decide to go ahead. I think registering is very good, but it might deter people who want to add something without going through te hassle of registering.
Perhaps you should have added a "Neutral" option in the poll, i would have gone for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2005 6:47:38 GMT
Yes registration is the best thing. That way no-one can hide behind anonimity and everyone is accountable to his fellows. Fractious people like this Bill geezer won't be able to do their muck raking and such whilst cowardly hiding behind a mask. If that sounds strong then it's because it's meant to be. . I seriously hope Bill does regester, he is staff and like most of us here has knowledge to share. |
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Post by chris on Jul 22, 2005 7:52:58 GMT
By registering it shows a bit of dedication to the forum (i see Q8's passed the 1,000 post mark) and that you want to share knowledge. Even if it is for one or two posts, that counter can show Dave and the other admin folk how many have been helped. Although people may use a temporary e-mail address it may deter the people who want to leave an offensive or a 'joke' message from a person who styreotypes all enthusiasts because they can't be bothered.
It seems by spending a few seconds signing up will have a few benefits, when not signing up will have no benefits at all. If someone really wanted to take part they'd be happy to sign up.
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Post by citysig on Jul 22, 2005 8:32:39 GMT
The events which have lead to this thread have shown a real lack of common sense, especially by such "guests" as this "Bill" chap. He appears to be a member of staff and should, quite frankly, know better than to spout off details of things people do not need to know about - especially when he is not in possession of all the facts.
My real issue was, because he did not have a proper account, I could not PM him the real details and set his mind straight. The PM system is there for good reason. Unless he identifies himself, I cannot enlighten him to the actual facts.
Therefore, I would go with allowing posts only from registered people. It doesn't afford much more security, but at least a "quiet word" can be had with those who may have got the wrong end of the stick. "Bill" I believe may have an account here (and certainly does elsewhere) but chose to "hide" behind the guest facility.
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Post by greatplum on Jul 22, 2005 9:26:55 GMT
I'm for registering - most other boards I have used make you register...
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Jul 22, 2005 9:31:13 GMT
I think registering is very good, but it might deter people who want to add something without going through the hassle of registering. But anyone not prepared to spend 2 minutes to register (that's all it took me anyway  ) cannot feel that strongly about his message  |
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Post by russe on Jul 22, 2005 15:08:34 GMT
I had no problem or hesitation in registering, nor do I have reason for disguising my real name. I recognise that some wish to present themselves (or lurk) anonymously, and I accept there are valid reasons of personal privacy or professional position for so doing. But frankly, if senior members here wish to maintain a culture of anonymity, then they can hardly criticise the grapefruits or the bills or the trainstops (I use those pseudonym creations merely for the purpose of illustration), be they guests or members, for lobbing contentious boulders into the pond. Chris' stress on motive, i.e. the joining in and the sharing of knowledge, is the essential point I feel.
I am currently minded to abstain from this vote, because the question being posed is based on a fundamentally flawed 'accountability' premise. The real questions it seems to me are:
"Should any poster, guest or member, be:
1 traceable (by the Mods); and
2 contactable offlist (by the members)?"
To which I would answer 'definitely yes' and 'preferably yes' respectively.
Russ
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Post by Colin D on Jul 22, 2005 17:30:05 GMT
You have a great forum DD, and I found it very informative for many months as a guest, so much so I became a member. It's not at all painful and just a few easy steps. I'm proud to be a member of this forum with so many excellent contrbutors. It would be a shame to change the format because of a small minority, but if that's what it take so be it. The loss will be to all of us, especeally with the loss of the one time "good guest " contributors
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Post by Chris W on Jul 22, 2005 19:10:59 GMT
I'm proud to be a member of this forum with so many excellent contributors. Well said... I agree whole heartedly  I don't think signing up to this free and open forum is too much to ask. Its free... literally... and therefore not restricting members through their financial status and subsequently it is by definition an open forum. If someone has got something that's important to say, its such a small price to pay to be able to add a thread or contribute (we shouldn't have anything to hide or be afraid of). Remember it is Mr DD (& the administrators) who are legally responsible for this site and therefore its important that they can protect themselves from improper comments that could potentially be posted  |
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Post by Colin D on Jul 22, 2005 19:53:10 GMT
[/quote] Remember it is Mr DD (& the administrators) who are legally responsible for this site and therefore its important that they can protect themselves from improper comments that could potentially be posted [/quote] I'm in total agreement, DD and the other admins have to protect themselves. After all we would not have this forum to enjoy and occasionally sound off. So what ever is decided we should all respect the forthcoming decision whether we agree with it or not, so we can continue to enjoy all future contributions |
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Post by rayb on Jul 22, 2005 20:55:31 GMT
My five eggs:
Regestration is a good idea, but as has been mentioned, it's not exactly difficult for someome to spend a pound in a cafe, register for a free e-mail addy and then have acess to this and other forums.
How about requiring each new mamber to write a short paragaph about themselves as a first posting, and also having all membership requests "vetted". It would then be up to DD or one of the admins to give a password or similar which would allow access to posting rights etc?
Of course, it might be as easy to set up an e-group/yahoo group which does have a fair range of "management" tools available. (This would suit me as I find forums like this hard to follow :-))
I'm all for registration myself, BTW.
Regards
RayB (known to at least one forum user).
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Post by redsam on Jul 23, 2005 0:00:51 GMT
This thread has prompted me to register, because it is a sensible thing to do and registered posters become regular, respected members of a community, which in turn increases its standing and encourages new members in. A little about myself, as an introduction - my father is a railway driver, and I have travelled extensively across the country. I also travel a lot on the Tube. I have lurked here for many months, reading the tales of old from Q8, reading DD's site for over a year, and learning of contemporary events from Solidbond and Alan L. I am pleased to be here, and appreciate all you do, both as ordinary staff members and as extraordinary people who take the time to interact with us here! |
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Post by Admin Team on Jul 24, 2005 22:02:06 GMT
Thanks to all of you who've taken the trouble to vote - given that I only gave quite short notice on this I (and Solidbond and AlanL too) are delighted at the response it's received.
You should by now have received an email formally notifying you of the changes.
We've taken onboard the comments made, and we accept that this isn't a 100% foolproof situation and that if people want to abuse or misuse this forum then they'll find a way to do so.
But, overall, we feel this is the most pragmatic course we can take, and I'm pleased that the vast majority of those who've voted agree - thanks for the support.
The change will make little practical difference in your day to day visits here.
We hope you all continue to participate as regularly as you've done in the past.
Best wishes,
Dave and the Admin Team
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) cannot feel that strongly about his message 
