Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,761
|
Post by Chris M on May 23, 2015 15:04:10 GMT
Franchising is not intended to create or operate a world class railway system for Britain. It is intended to operate an adequate system in a way that makes the government's books look good to accountants.
|
|
|
|
Post by stapler on May 23, 2015 17:48:26 GMT
Pridley - this is the first time I've seen the service level at Maryland discussed in the guise of a Marxist dialectic! But of course, you are quite right....
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on May 23, 2015 19:10:04 GMT
pridley - not sure I agree with your thesis. I was merely pointing out what the current situation is in terms of agreements TfL are bound by. You seem to be inbuing TfL with extra powers whereas the reality is that TfL is bound by what the Mayor and Government say and policies TfL have agreed to. We have a Mayoral Election next year and it is perfectly possible a Mayor may be elected who has no plans to take over more suburban rail services. With no Mayoral policy on rail devolution nothing will happen. We may also have a Mayor who decides to shove fares up to a level beyond NR ones. They may not be re-elected for a second term but Boris has shoved up fares year after year after year. He was re-elected in 2008 on a manifesto that said fares would rise whereas the opposition policy of a fares cut was rejected. It is also perfectly possible that a future government may abolish London Government and scrap TfL. It is highly that the next Mayor, regardless of party, will seek to reform and restructure TfL to reduce costs and raise efficiency. Even if we end up with a Mayor that supports more rail devolution any further changes have to get past the sea of blue Tory constituencies that encircle London. Kent politicians completely scuppered devolution of South Eastern suburban services. Expect to see much more of that opposition if Surrey, Sussex and Kent commuters believe they are going to be worse off if TfL take over inner area services run by Southern, TSGN, SWT and South Eastern. There will be little rationality to the arguments but they won't stop MPs being worried and the Secretary of State being badgered to prevent any change.
|
|
|
|
Post by pridley on May 23, 2015 19:26:09 GMT
Snoggle, I was simply stating that the concession system run by TFL where they have long term ownership and no profits taken out the back door by a franchise holder, means that they can afford to cut fares and re-invest incredible amounts of money and we see London transport expanding at a vastly different pace to the rest of the UK.
Think of this not in terms of TFL vs TOC's. This is moreover a battle of ideology and economic models. TFL have demonstrated the concession model sound relative to the existing franchising model. Thus, even if TFL does not expand much into the London hinterland, we may well see other devolved cities taking on the mantle. Look for Bristol and Manchester. Certainly, the local lines in Bristol are in desperate need of a TFL style takeover and a metro network there on the existing lines could utterly transform the city. Maybe electrification of the Bristol mainline will bring enough Londoners and enough clamor for such action.
But do not discount a parallel assault on the present franchise system from private investors, aka Heathrow Connect. Could for example we see them finally taking the leap of faith to privately build that link desperately needed from Heathrow to Waterloo? Thus, with that, we see another model outpacing the franchise system. I am also mindful of the slow but steady growth of private, not for profit heritage lines, in terms of what happens over the next 100yrs!
|
|
|
|
Post by 315 on May 27, 2015 23:12:39 GMT
Brentwood will be in fare zone 9. Shenfield will be outside the fare zones but will still be within the Oyster PAYG area. Indeed, but Shenfield is not the only TfL Rail station in Essex as the TfL site claims - the GLA boundary is between Brentwood and Harold Wood This is slightly misleading as TfL Rail are not taking over Shenfield. It remains an AGA station after 31st May. |
|
Antje
侵略! S系, でゲソ! The Tube comes from the bottom of London!
Posts: 605
|
Post by Antje on Jun 1, 2015 10:52:41 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by jetblast787 on Jun 3, 2015 14:24:14 GMT
Quick question, are TfL staff and family members with a staff oyster card able to travel all the way to Shenfield?
|
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Jun 3, 2015 17:58:26 GMT
Quick question, are TfL staff and family members with a staff oyster card able to travel all the way to Shenfield? Yes but only on TfL Rail services. Staff passes are not valid on any Abellio Greater Anglia train east of Stratford. |
|
|
|
Post by jetblast787 on Jun 4, 2015 16:06:28 GMT
Quick question, are TfL staff and family members with a staff oyster card able to travel all the way to Shenfield? Yes but only on TfL Rail services. Staff passes are not valid on any Abellio Greater Anglia train east of Stratford. Excellent, thanks  |
|
|
|
Post by jamesdude11 on Jun 4, 2015 21:44:20 GMT
Hey,
Will TFL Staff & Nominee Passes be valid on the TFL Rail, and new London Overground Services From Liverpool Street.
Many Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 4, 2015 21:56:11 GMT
Will TFL Staff & Nominee Passes be valid on the TFL Rail, and new London Overground Services From Liverpool Street. See previous post on the same thread Yes but only on TfL Rail services. Staff passes are not valid on any Abellio Greater Anglia train east of Stratford. |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Jun 5, 2015 0:00:19 GMT
Hey, Will TFL Staff & Nominee Passes be valid on the TFL Rail, and new London Overground Services From Liverpool Street. Many Thanks Yes they are valid on London Overground trains to Enfield, Chingford and Cheshunt. They are NOT valid on any Abellio Greater Anglia services including the peak time trains that run via Seven Sisters and Edmonton Green. There is NO staff pass validity on AGA trains via Tottenham Hale (whether starting at Stratford or at Liverpool Street). The answer re TfL Rail services to Shenfield is in another earlier post. |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2015 9:54:51 GMT
Before TFL took over, did Greater Anglia drivers have duties on the metro lines and the main lines to Southend and Colchester?
If so, is that still the case now?
Also, are they still using class 315 units on some of the Southend services? Would be a good picture to get a TFL Rail branded 315 at Southend!
|
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Jun 13, 2015 11:37:02 GMT
Before TFL took over, did Greater Anglia drivers have duties on the metro lines and the main lines to Southend and Colchester? If so, is that still the case now? Also, are they still using class 315 units on some of the Southend services? Would be a good picture to get a TFL Rail branded 315 at Southend! 1) Are you referring to road knowledge or actual duties? 2) No, no 315s are now booked east of Shenfield. |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2015 12:13:52 GMT
Before TFL took over, did Greater Anglia drivers have duties on the metro lines and the main lines to Southend and Colchester? If so, is that still the case now? Also, are they still using class 315 units on some of the Southend services? Would be a good picture to get a TFL Rail branded 315 at Southend! 1) Are you referring to road knowledge or actual duties? 2) No, no 315s are now booked east of Shenfield. L Thanks. I was referring to both. |
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Jun 13, 2015 13:34:59 GMT
1) Are you referring to road knowledge or actual duties? 2) No, no 315s are now booked east of Shenfield. L Thanks. I was referring to both. Yes, they had road knowledge. I don't know if any had duties where they would drive multiple classes of train in one shift. |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2015 14:35:18 GMT
And is there now a complete segregation of duties? Who are the drivers actually employed by?
|
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Jun 13, 2015 15:47:57 GMT
Yes, complete segregation. In fact, as I understand it, Abellio Greater Anglia now have a shortage of drivers because they have lost so many to both TfL Rail and London Overground. As to who the TfL Rail drivers are now employed by, not sure if it's MTR or TFL.
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2015 16:06:09 GMT
Ok thanks. So one more question. Will all drivers from TFL / Abelio remain route trained over all tracks from Liverpool Street to Shenfield?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 16:22:19 GMT
How was it decided who went to TfL Rail and who went to LO and who stayed with AGA? Cause obviously if there had been segregation to begin with it would just be a case of LO taking on those drivers and TfL Rail taking on those drivers and that'd be that. But it seems you're saying that the drivers who signed the now LO routes also signed AGA's other routes and could be rostered to drive them so how was it decided. Was it elective?
|
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 13, 2015 16:55:18 GMT
Yes, complete segregation. In fact, as I understand it, Abellio Greater Anglia now have a shortage of drivers because they have lost so many to both TfL Rail and London Overground. As to who the TfL Rail drivers are now employed by, not sure if it's MTR or TFL. They will be employed by LOROL if they are on LO, or MTR Crossrail if they are working TFL rail services. They will be TUPE'd across to a new operator when it changes. Ok thanks. So one more question. Will all drivers from TFL / Abelio remain route trained over all tracks from Liverpool Street to Shenfield? For the first few months, drivers from both companies will still have route knowledge over both lines, and so can operate over them as diversionary routes. I would like to think that route knowledge will be retained for diversion purposes, but there is no real way of knowing at the moment unless you work for either How was it decided who went to TfL Rail and who went to LO and who stayed with AGA? Cause obviously if there had been segregation to begin with it would just be a case of LO taking on those drivers and TfL Rail taking on those drivers and that'd be that. But it seems you're saying that the drivers who signed the now LO routes also signed AGA's other routes and could be rostered to drive them so how was it decided. Was it elective? I think that they will have taken over certain staff depots with enough people to run their services. I'm not sure where the depots are, but certain ones will have become TfL ones overnight. Hopefully, there were opportunities for people to transfer in/out of them as they chose prior to takeover day. Previously, those who currently drive LO services will have signed most, if not all WA routes out of Liverpool Street (ie to chingford, enfield town, hertford east, stanstead, cambridge), but come changeover date became restricted to the LO routes. |
|
|
|
Post by stapler on Jun 13, 2015 18:01:27 GMT
<< No, no 315s are now booked east of Shenfield...>>
That's odd, as I saw one taking the "underpass" towards Billericay on Tuesday....
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2015 18:29:18 GMT
<< No, no 315s are now booked east of Shenfield...>> That's odd, as I saw one taking the "underpass" towards Billericay on Tuesday.... The plot thickens . . . EDIT: Having checked the timetable, some trains from Southend are indicated as having no first class accommodation available. The class 321's have first class, meaning that the other trains must be 315's. So it seems that 315's are booked east of Shenfield. |
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 13, 2015 19:58:04 GMT
<< No, no 315s are now booked east of Shenfield...>> That's odd, as I saw one taking the "underpass" towards Billericay on Tuesday.... The plot thickens . . . EDIT: Having checked the timetable, some trains from Southend are indicated as having no first class accommodation available. The class 321's have first class, meaning that the other trains must be 315's. So it seems that 315's are booked east of Shenfield. Just because a train is booked as not having first class, doesn't mean it can't run with first class. For example, SW Trains from Windsor and Eton Riverside are run without first class, but they are run almost exclusively by class 450, which does have first class, it is simply run with first class declassified, which is good if you are in the know. The 321s will run the service to southend, except people sat in first class without a first class ticket won't be fined. |
|
|
|
Post by peterc on Jun 14, 2015 9:39:35 GMT
IIRC, whatever changes are being made behind the scenes the public timetable looks much the same. I imagine that nobody thought that it was worth removing the anomaly at this time.
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 14, 2015 13:05:53 GMT
Having checked the timetable, some trains from Southend are indicated as having no first class accommodation available. The class 321's have first class, meaning that the other trains must be 315's. So it seems that 315's are booked east of Shenfield.. The public timetable did not change on May 31st - only the operators. Prior to the changeover the services may still have been rostered for 315s, and thus are shown as standard-class-only in the timetable. If they hadn't done so, the operator would have had to pay compensation to any 1st-class ticket holder using the train. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 15:01:03 GMT
Will Greater Anglia continue to provide half of the Sunday service for Harold Wood and Brentwood until the full Crossrail service starts?
|
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Jul 31, 2015 15:21:48 GMT
Route knowledge is an interesting question as the four tracks are multidirectional. A few years ago on a special train traversing the eastern region destinations such as Southend Victoria, Colchester Town, Clacton, Frinton etc. On the return to Liverpool Street the signaller had fun and routed us down every track including Manor Park freight loop. it was quite unnerving when you realised the train was wrong road working even though it is not really when dealing with multi-directional track.
|
|
|
|
Post by sawb on Aug 9, 2015 7:53:31 GMT
Will Greater Anglia continue to provide half of the Sunday service for Harold Wood and Brentwood until the full Crossrail service starts? Not sure. Really depends on when the crossover removal is scheduled to be completed. My understanding is that out of 10 current emergency crossovers between Shenfield and Stratford, all but 4 are being removed, allegedly to imrpove service reliability. Go figure.... |
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Aug 9, 2015 9:59:26 GMT
Will Greater Anglia continue to provide half of the Sunday service for Harold Wood and Brentwood until the full Crossrail service starts? Not sure. Really depends on when the crossover removal is scheduled to be completed. My understanding is that out of 10 current emergency crossovers between Shenfield and Stratford, all but 4 are being removed, allegedly to imrpove service reliability. Go figure.... Isn't it Network Rail policy now to remove points and crossing where they are not required or are of a non standard design or approaching the end of their life or are known to have a poor reliability record? I understand the concern about the loss of operational flexibility but if you can safely plain line track and still recover the service effectively in most situations you're probably further ahead in terms of reliability than you'd otherwise be. TfL have also specified a very tough regime for MTR to meet in terms of Crossrail's performance and some contribution will have to come from Network Rail in terms of their assets working better than they currently do. Obviously we shall see in due course whether the right decisions have been taken. |
|
