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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 13:13:08 GMT
I always wondered what will be happening to those 3 branch lines once Crossrail arrives between Paddington and Reading. Are they being electrified? Will they be operated by Crossrail or FGW (if FGW's contract gets extended)?
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Post by christopher125 on May 14, 2015 14:16:38 GMT
FGW have been given a Direct Award to operate the franchise, including these branches, until April 2019 - as for electrification, Windsor and Henley will be wired but the Marlow branch will not.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 15:37:58 GMT
Any particular reason as to why Marlow will not be electrified considering a lot of commuters use the line?
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 14, 2015 15:50:06 GMT
For the same reason Greenford won't be. Platform lengths (and in particular the distance between the buffers and the points at Bourne End) preclude the use of anything longer than two coaches on those branches. And there are no two-coach ac units, nor any way of making one by removing coaches from a longer one. (Take out the middle coach(es) and you have no pantograph, take out either end coach and it can only be driven in one direction!) They won't be a complete diesel island - Reading depot will still need diesels for the North Downs and Cotswold lines for the foreseeable future. The only 2-car emus on NR at present are the dc-only class 456s. www.kentrail.org.uk/Class%20456.jpgThe last ac ones were the class 309/1s, which were converted to 4-car in the 1970s and scrapped in the mid-nineties. www.gensheet.co.uk/photo309/602svic.JPG (note the pantograph over the driving cab, instead of the conventional position on an intermediate car)
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 19:00:15 GMT
Thank you for your explanation.
But if the Marlow Branch line is not getting electrified, why are the trees along the line either trimmed, or cut completly?
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Post by John Tuthill on May 14, 2015 20:25:24 GMT
Thank you for your explanation. But if the Marlow Branch line is not getting electrified, why are the trees along the line either trimmed, or cut completly? Leaves on the line-or not as the case may be
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Post by domh245 on May 14, 2015 22:14:36 GMT
The leaf trimming may be something to do with network rail's current drive to tidy up the network, by trimming back vegetation, removing rails from the 4ft, and similar tasks. This is particularly evident on the bank to the east of point pleasant junction, where almost all of the trees have disappeared.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2015 6:25:56 GMT
Thank you for your explanation. But if the Marlow Branch line is not getting electrified, why are the trees along the line either trimmed, or cut completly? I think it is lunacy not to electrify the Marlow Branch as this requires the retention of diesel units with the associated empty/ additional workings on an what is ti become a very congested GWML! The service to Marlow and Borne End is to be doubled in frequency and this will be achieved by making both platforms at Bourne End accessible from both the Maidenhead and Marlow lines thereby providing a passing point for trains on the branch. This branch was originally planned to be electrified however there was an an issue with the EMU's being to lo long to fit into the platforms at Bourne End so rather than find a solution to this problem the Luddites that run the railways had their day! XF
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 16, 2015 12:46:03 GMT
I think it is lunacy not to electrify the Marlow Branch as this requires the retention of diesel units with the associated empty/ additional workings on an what is to become a very congested GWML! The branch trains will need to run to and from Maidenhead at the beginning and end of service whether they are powered by diesel, electricity, or magic beans, so electrifying the branch won't reduce the ecs workings. And they won't be an isolated diesel island requiring bespoke stock. Diesel will still be needed in the area to cover the Greenford, Gatwick and Cotswold lines as there are no plans to electrify those. This branch was originally planned to be electrified however there was an an issue with the EMU's being to lo long to fit into the platforms at Bourne End so rather than find a solution to this problem the Luddites that run the railways had their day! Looking at Bourne End, it is difficult to see how the platforms could be extended without demolishing a large part of the village centre - and if access to the branch is to be made possible from both platforms this will make it even harder to achieve. They did find a solution - use diesel units. Given the coming demand for electric units at many locations from Alloa to Ystrad Rhondda, designing a bespoke 2-car unit for a production run of maybe four (including one for the Greenford branch and a maintenance spare) would be a waste of resources, especially as there will be a glut of diesels available soon as a result of electrification elsewhere. Any such units would of course be non-standard with the rest of the GWML/Crossrail fleet, so the ecs issue would remain (such as it is). And even if the only existing two-car emus (the class 456s) could be converted to ac, which would require major modifications to the bodywork to provide a pantograph well, as well as finding space for a transformer and other gubbins, SWT needs all 24 of them (and, I suspect, could easily find use for a dozen more, to allow all its eight-car class 455 formations to be expanded to ten-car, instead of just 24 of them).
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Post by North End on May 16, 2015 17:03:04 GMT
Thank you for your explanation. But if the Marlow Branch line is not getting electrified, why are the trees along the line either trimmed, or cut completly? I think it is lunacy not to electrify the Marlow Branch as this requires the retention of diesel units with the associated empty/ additional workings on an what is ti become a very congested GWML! The service to Marlow and Borne End is to be doubled in frequency and this will be achieved by making both platforms at Bourne End accessible from both the Maidenhead and Marlow lines thereby providing a passing point for trains on the branch. This branch was originally planned to be electrified however there was an an issue with the EMU's being to lo long to fit into the platforms at Bourne End so rather than find a solution to this problem the Luddites that run the railways had their day! XF Have you ever been to Bourne End? The station is wedged between the Marlow branch junction at the south end, which is already on a sharp curve, and a road at the north end. The junction is also constrained by the Thames bridge which is close as well. The trackbed of the former route northwards to High Wycombe is now an industrial estate - if you could get this removed then it would be possible to resite the station north of the road, but then you would need either a level crossing or road overbridge or underbridge. The level crossing would likely be resisted due to the potential to cause traffic congestion, whilst the road bridge would be disruptive and expensive. All this might be justifiable if this was the only diesel route in the area, but as there will be a requirement for DMUs at Reading (?) for the Reigate and Greenford lines this makes it much less of a problem. Having said all this, it does seem disappointing that the Reading-Redhill route doesn't seem to be up for electrification, especially as large parts of this already have the 3rd rail. It doesn't help that Network Rail is still flirting with the idea of replacing the whole DC network with AC, whether this ever turns out to be realistic remains to be seen, but in the meantime it imposes a planning blight on any potential DC schemes. There's no way the missing sections of Reading-Redhill could be realistically done with AC due to the number of AC/DC interfaces this would require. If this line were done on DC, and Greenford were then electrified, this might change the economics such that a costly complete remodelling of Bourne End could be more justifiable.
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Post by flippyff on May 17, 2015 16:08:45 GMT
For the same reason Greenford won't be. Platform lengths (and in particular the distance between the buffers and the points at Bourne End) preclude the use of anything longer than two coaches on those branches. And there are no two-coach ac units, nor any way of making one by removing coaches from a longer one. (Take out the middle coach(es) and you have no pantograph, take out either end coach and it can only be driven in one direction!) They won't be a complete diesel island - Reading depot will still need diesels for the North Downs and Cotswold lines for the foreseeable future. The only 2-car emus on NR at present are the dc-only class 456s. www.kentrail.org.uk/Class%20456.jpgThe last ac ones were the class 309/1s, which were converted to 4-car in the 1970s and scrapped in the mid-nineties. www.gensheet.co.uk/photo309/602svic.JPG (note the pantograph over the driving cab, instead of the conventional position on an intermediate car) The HS1 395s have the pantograph over the leading car.... #justsayin' ;-)
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Post by philthetube on May 17, 2015 16:31:54 GMT
Of course it is possible, just very expensive.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2015 16:54:29 GMT
I think it is lunacy not to electrify the Marlow Branch as this requires the retention of diesel units with the associated empty/ additional workings on an what is ti become a very congested GWML! The service to Marlow and Borne End is to be doubled in frequency and this will be achieved by making both platforms at Bourne End accessible from both the Maidenhead and Marlow lines thereby providing a passing point for trains on the branch. This branch was originally planned to be electrified however there was an an issue with the EMU's being to lo long to fit into the platforms at Bourne End so rather than find a solution to this problem the Luddites that run the railways had their day! XF Have you ever been to Bourne End? The station is wedged between the Marlow branch junction at the south end, which is already on a sharp curve, and a road at the north end. The junction is also constrained by the Thames bridge which is close as well. The trackbed of the former route northwards to High Wycombe is now an industrial estate - if you could get this removed then it would be possible to resite the station north of the road, but then you would need either a level crossing or road overbridge or underbridge. The level crossing would likely be resisted due to the potential to cause traffic congestion, whilst the road bridge would be disruptive and expensive. All this might be justifiable if this was the only diesel route in the area, but as there will be a requirement for DMUs at Reading (?) for the Reigate and Greenford lines this makes it much less of a problem. Having said all this, it does seem disappointing that the Reading-Redhill route doesn't seem to be up for electrification, especially as large parts of this already have the 3rd rail. It doesn't help that Network Rail is still flirting with the idea of replacing the whole DC network with AC, whether this ever turns out to be realistic remains to be seen, but in the meantime it imposes a planning blight on any potential DC schemes. There's no way the missing sections of Reading-Redhill could be realistically done with AC due to the number of AC/DC interfaces this would require. If this line were done on DC, and Greenford were then electrified, this might change the economics such that a costly complete remodelling of Bourne End could be more justifiable. I live in Maidehead and know Bourne End Station well and Mark Hopwood has done his homework here and it is possible to fit a 3 car 387 into a both platforms by using TPWS . There is a space within the industrial estate at Bourne End to run a single line track through it however there are challenges to re-instatement of the line near Loudwater.
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 17, 2015 17:54:25 GMT
And there are no two-coach ac units, nor any way of making one by removing coaches from a longer one. The HS1 395s have the pantograph over the leading car. Both end cars are trailers though.............
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 7:53:45 GMT
2019 at the earliest for Marlow Branch electrification !
Backdoor budget cuts for a project that is not going well!
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 17:57:58 GMT
2019 at the earliest for Marlow Branch electrification ! Backdoor budget cuts for a project that is not going well! I can assure you this will be delayed to the next decade.
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