A Stock RAT finished?

As the replacement D Stock has neither been selected nor conversion started yet, i would hope the A Stock have another season left to run!

As sir says. Still another season. There's a whole store room at Neasden (under lock and key!) dedicated to all the spare parts to keep the old thing going!


It doesn't matter whether it's one season or two. Certainly for the people that need to drive it, it is an annual requirement for all members of the crew previously qualified on A stock to be re-familiarised as part of their licensing so long as the A stock RAT is scheduled to operate, regardless if it's one season or not. And so long as there are people that are still scheduled to operate it, then people need to be in license to keep up its maitenance regime.

With regards to the operation: Stock familiarisation for the current crew requires less time, effort and money than the annual stock familiarisation that would've been given to line-based Train Operators on current passenger rolling stock (2 days out of a 5-day Continous Development Programme), as a result of the difference in the amount of people that would need to be re-familiarised every year: Over a two dozen Test Train Operators or 350+ Met line drivers, I think the former is more cost effective in terms of people being released for training. It's enough of a nightmare organising release, coverage and rostering as it is for line-based Train Operators just for one group (usually 6-8 T/Ops at a time), never mind trying to keep up with who is due their CDP to keep licenses up to date.

I see that one of the 'A' Stock Units has been moved from their stabling location at the back of Neasden Depot in the last 24 hours or so. Preparation for this year's sandite season perhaps?

Sorry, no idea Metman. However, having said that, 5234 was thankfully cleaned up a couple of months back from what I could see from passing on the main line and so I believe was the north end unit on that siding.

1. Where would it live?
2. Are LU willing to part with it for preservation?

If only it was a simple as throwing money...

One unit could stay at Neasden Depot as the mascot of the Metropolitan line.

So back to question 1. Where does it live? It is on an engineer's road that will be required for the D78 RAT.

I believe that A stock can no longer go south of Wembley Park. So that rules out Farringdon.

How long until it gets tagged in Chalfont bay, how to do you prep/maintain it, how do you move it on or off?

Realistically the only people who could take it on are the Museum. But they - yep, you guessed it - have no space.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to see a full A stock preserved in an operational capacity on the network. But at the end of the day LU is a business and an A stock is never going to have a business need once its use as a RAT is over. The well-documented tribulations with the Cravens' 1960 & 1962 stocks and the LTM's '38, Standard and Q stocks all show just how much of a challenge (And non-starter, imo) this would be.

What happened to the plans when they were withdrawn from traffic to maintain them to a passenger carrying standard for use as a heritage train/RAT? It was on the old A stock withdrawals thread, someone who knew about alot of the details to do with the withdrawals said they were keeping both 5110 and 5234 as Heritage train/RAT and when the D stock come to replace them on the RAT duties, one of the 2 will have to be scrapped and one unit kept as a heritage train similar to the 38ts, with 5112 in Acton Works being a body spare in case of any accidents with 5110/5234

The district has coped without RATs for a while, so I don't think there is really a need for it to gain some now. Its because it doesn't really go through areas as likely to give slippery rail conditions as either the met or the central.

I was driving at 'anywhere but a scrapyard' to start with! There are overwhelming reasons to save one, but unless dialogue is opened soon to ascertain specifics, pitfalls, solutions, and plans, hope it lost and failure is accepted.

Roll on thirty years and the next generation only have our generation to blame for there being no heritage! Exactly what they will say about the C stock, and have said about the COCP stock, the R stock. One stuffed car is useless, but something that works can also earn its keep, or at least contribute to it.



What do other members think a useful and pragmatic way to go about discussing this all with the relevant people would be?

I have heard the A stock is to be modified to work on 750V as part of the 750V upgrade project.

I doubt the 750V modifications will happen unless the A Stock has to do the 2016 sandite season. The aspiration to keep a unit or two for heritage use was always dependent on money and space being available, that and having a set of licenced maintenance staff. The surviving units will also require overhaul at some point.

You've also got to consider how the LU network will evolve over the next decade or so, with current favourite locations for stabling heritage trains (Ruislip and Northfields) being converted to maintain the new GOA4 capable NTfL trains. The engineering fleet will need to be segregated from Central Line fleet for instance, which means a massive redevelopment of Ruislip.

AFAIK the A Stock will not be fitted with the new SSR signalling system therefore it would be limited to Tripcock areas. Once the Piccadilly is upgraded you're basically left with the Met line from Harrow to Amersham. Either that or be limited to cancelled engineering hours running under an ITMP, although that has to be balanced against night tube being rolled out on the SSR.

Regards,

Dan

On an semi related note, seems like with what graeme186 said about 5110 being moved in the depot, theyre getting the RAT units ready for action in time for October. Passed Ruislip depot last night, saw the Central lines 5 car RAT with lights on with other bits of shunting going on in the yard, the 4TC was out in the yard and so was a class 20.