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Post by brigham on Apr 23, 2015 10:00:27 GMT
There's a certain generation who stand way, way back from the edge at all stations. That generation is the one that grew up with slam-door trains. No, it's the generation that grew up with politeness. |
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Post by Chris W on Apr 23, 2015 12:07:09 GMT
I want to stress that my starting this thread was not in response to any particular incident and was just a general question... Exactly, we (the forum staff) noted that, which is why we didn't close it down  Its all about trying to find a balance. Rule 7.2 is specifically about such sad situations. Speculation about what might have happened is the last thing that the emergency services, witnesses and the person's family want to read. On top of that when a Coronors Court is likely to get involved, it would be foolish for anyone to conclusively claim what had/hadn't taken place - that's why the rule exists. |
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Post by MoreToJack on Apr 23, 2015 13:37:43 GMT
There's a certain generation who stand way, way back from the edge at all stations. That generation is the one that grew up with slam-door trains. No, it's the generation that grew up with politeness. I find that slightly offensive, there are many from a younger generation who are extremely polite, myself included... I can't fault the statement about standing back from the edge though; I'll always wait behind the yellow line but in places that may be closer than those familiar with slam doors would themselves have stood. |
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Post by North End on Apr 23, 2015 14:19:19 GMT
There's a certain generation who stand way, way back from the edge at all stations. That generation is the one that grew up with slam-door trains. No, it's the generation that grew up with politeness. Can't agree with that. Many railway staff will testify that older people can be amongst the rudest, and - at times - most troublesome. My experience would tend to confirm this. If the 'older generation' are characterised by such politeness, wouldn't one have expected this to pass on to their offspring? |
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Post by trt on Apr 23, 2015 15:00:28 GMT
No, it's the generation that grew up with politeness. Can't agree with that. Many railway staff will testify that older people can be amongst the rudest, and - at times - most troublesome. My experience would tend to confirm this. If the 'older generation' are characterised by such politeness, wouldn't one have expected this to pass on to their offspring? Have to agree there. Politeness is not age related, in my experience. The point I was trying to make was that I'm of the last generation where across the network the general situation there were no door interlocks, so if you stood closer than 33 inches to the platform edge you could expect to get over 35lb of wood, metal, glass and leather smacking into you at 20mph+ because there's always a bunch of idiots who leaned out and opened the door ready to leap out to try to get ahead of the masses. If there's one thing that teaches you respect for the PTI, it's that! Also, the horrible thing I saw at H&W when I was 22 which gives me nightmares to this day. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Apr 23, 2015 18:30:48 GMT
My Grandad, a railwayman of nearly 50 years standing, worked on Bethnal Green and Stratford NR stations until he retired in the early 1970s. He had loads of stories about people on platforms being killed and badly injured by slam doors being opened early by passengers eager to alight. I never heard him use the phrase "Platform Train Interface" though and I'd dread to think what he'd have said had he heard it referred to as such in his lifetime.  Does anybody know who first coined this phrase and when it was? I suspect it may have been at the same time as the truly dreadful "24/7"..............  |
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Post by londonstuff on Apr 23, 2015 23:48:13 GMT
My Grandad, a railwayman of nearly 50 years standing, worked on Bethnal Green and Stratford NR stations until he retired in the early 1970s. He had loads of stories about people on platforms being killed and badly injured by slam doors being opened early by passengers eager to alight. I never heard him use the phrase "Platform Train Interface" though and I'd dread to think what he'd have said had he heard it referred to as such in his lifetime. Does anybody know who first coined this phrase and when it was? I suspect it may have been at the same time as the truly dreadful "24/7".............. <Off topic> I know, but probably the same person that came up with the phrases ideas' shower, blue sky thinking and to be completely honest. |
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Post by nickf on Apr 24, 2015 4:55:53 GMT
I remember the poster that warned people not to open a slam door until the train had stopped....something like "A moment of folly, a lifetime of regret" underneath a picture of a lady being struck by an opening door on an arriving train.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 24, 2015 9:02:30 GMT
I remember the poster that warned people not to open a slam door until the train had stopped....something like "A moment of folly, a lifetime of regret" underneath a picture of a lady being struck by an opening door on an arriving train. A very clever poster, because of what it does NOT say. Was the folly that of the person opening the door prematurely, or that of the person getting too close to the edge of the platform? The implication was that it was both of them. I was once hit (quite gently) by a train door whilst walking along a platform - but since I had opened it myself to alight from the train before it had stopped, and the door then caught up with me, I had no-one but myself to blame. |
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Post by trt on Apr 24, 2015 11:47:35 GMT
I remember the poster that warned people not to open a slam door until the train had stopped....something like "A moment of folly, a lifetime of regret" underneath a picture of a lady being struck by an opening door on an arriving train. A very clever poster, because of what it does NOT say. Was the folly that of the person opening the door prematurely, or that of the person getting too close to the edge of the platform? The implication was that it was both of them. I was once hit (quite gently) by a train door whilst walking along a platform - but since I had opened it myself to alight from the train before it had stopped, and the door then caught up with me, I had no-one but myself to blame. Beware your sins will catch you up! |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Apr 24, 2015 12:02:17 GMT
I remember the poster that warned people not to open a slam door until the train had stopped....something like "A moment of folly, a lifetime of regret" underneath a picture of a lady being struck by an opening door on an arriving train. A very clever poster, because of what it does NOT say. Was the folly that of the person opening the door prematurely, or that of the person getting too close to the edge of the platform? The implication was that it was both of them. I was once hit (quite gently) by a train door whilst walking along a platform - but since I had opened it myself to alight from the train before it had stopped, and the door then caught up with me, I had no-one but myself to blame. That's class NF! It reminds me of the true story of the Grumman F11F Tiger, one of the fastest US Naval fighters aircraft of its time, shooting itself down with cannon shells it had fired just previously and then overtaken.  Link: A Tiger Bites Its Tail |
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Post by patstonuk on Apr 24, 2015 19:01:47 GMT
I remember the poster that warned people not to open a slam door until the train had stopped....something like "A moment of folly, a lifetime of regret" underneath a picture of a lady being struck by an opening door on an arriving train. A very clever poster, because of what it does NOT say. Was the folly that of the person opening the door prematurely, or that of the person getting too close to the edge of the platform? The implication was that it was both of them. I was once hit (quite gently) by a train door whilst walking along a platform - but since I had opened it myself to alight from the train before it had stopped, and the door then caught up with me, I had no-one but myself to blame. There was, of course, an art to it. Lower the droplight to check the platform was clear. Open the door and push it flush with the bodyside. Step on to the running board, then hop/jump down, being prepared to run if necessary. The tricks were firstly to land safely on the platform and get well clear and secondly to keep a restraining hold of the door in case of its swinging out of control under braking. Job done and among the first down the steps to the Drain! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 19:54:25 GMT
A very clever poster, because of what it does NOT say. Was the folly that of the person opening the door prematurely, or that of the person getting too close to the edge of the platform? The implication was that it was both of them. I was once hit (quite gently) by a train door whilst walking along a platform - but since I had opened it myself to alight from the train before it had stopped, and the door then caught up with me, I had no-one but myself to blame. There was, of course, an art to it. Lower the droplight to check the platform was clear. Open the door and push it flush with the bodyside. Step on to the running board, then hop/jump down, being prepared to run if necessary. The tricks were firstly to land safely on the platform and get well clear and secondly to keep a restraining hold of the door in case of its swinging out of control under braking. Job done and among the first down the steps to the Drain! Hardly anything to brag about! I travelled on slam door stock for many years and was taught at a very early age to behave in safe and responsible manner and think about others safety too! XF |
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Post by arun on Apr 24, 2015 20:16:55 GMT
I think I might have an answer to Whistlekiller's query. In medical note shorthand, elapsed times are generally written as fractions of obvious whole numbers e.g., 3/52 = 3 weeks, 3/12 = 3months, 12/7 = 12 days, 23/24 = 23 hours, 5/60 = 5minutes, 9/40 = 9weeks pregnant [since the [statistical] mode pregnancy generally lasts 40 weeks rather than 9 months]. Possibly someone peeking into hospital notes quite liked the use of the shorthand and thought 24/7 meant 24 hours {when in medspeak it means 24days} but didn't actually have any idea of what they were reading!
Arun
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 23:30:42 GMT
I think I might have an answer to Whistlekiller's query. In medical note shorthand, elapsed times are generally written as fractions of obvious whole numbers e.g., 3/52 = 3 weeks, 3/12 = 3months, 12/7 = 12 days, 23/24 = 23 hours, 5/60 = 5minutes, 9/40 = 9weeks pregnant [since the [statistical] mode pregnancy generally lasts 40 weeks rather than 9 months]. Possibly someone peeking into hospital notes quite liked the use of the shorthand and thought 24/7 meant 24 hours {when in medspeak it means 24days} but didn't actually have any idea of what they were reading! Arun Didn't someone clever state that it everything was all relative? . So I if had opened a door on a train before it had stopped and hurt someone then that person would be have to a relative albeit a very distant one. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 0:34:14 GMT
www.gov.uk/government/news/serious-accident-at-west-wickham-station Yet another PTI incident, this time again with 'life changing injuries'. I know it's irrelevant to the Northern line incident but what particularly annoys me about this is that even the RAIB will not fault the dispatch method here, instead writing a load of rubbish about the design of the doors... How many more deaths or 'life changing injuries' will it take before the clearly unsafe Driver only dispatch method used on the mainline (aswell as the Bakerloo, Piccadilly lines and District line) is looked at properly and the ridding of Guards on trains be admitted as a terrible corner cutting mistake?
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