Platform train interface

Much as I don't like ATO, I don't really think it can be said to have made the Northern line less safe. If anything at all, you'd think maybe it would free a T/Op up to concentrate specifically on the PTI, rather than looking for a stopping mark or something.

I suppose, there is a flip side which is that it's been noted that, when human beings aren't "in the loop", it can be hard for them to dive right into an automated process; but it's not exactly difficult to hit the emergency stop button. That really applies more to being expected to take over from a machine, e.g. when the autopilot cuts out on an aircraft. So I really doubt it's had any effect.

As you've noted, emergency stop plungers were shelved because they were considered more trouble than they were worth. They're a nice idea in some ways, but I'm not sure if they'd've helped with the most recent incident. I also agree that there's a lot of potential for abuse with little real gain. The Holland Park incident demonstrated this very well. Not only were passengers unable to operate them, with people attempting to hit the cap, rather than removing it to press the button; but the emergency stop plungers would not have helped in any way. The train at Holland Park was very much already stopped. That was, in some ways, the problem. I think it's pretty clear that Central line passengers don't really understand what they're for, or how they work.

I expect they will come in due course.

However, it's worth noting, that according to some sources at least, they were originally installed on the JLE for air management and to reduce the piston effect. How true that is I can't tell you, but it's certainly worth noting that they were not fitted to the overground parts of the JLE, nor were they retrofitted to any other parts of the Jubilee line.

PEDs are also another expense and not necessarily easy to retrofit. They require the train to communicate with the doors which is obviously now very much possible, but it's worth remembering that it's not just a case of putting in the doors, there's a whole load of other equipment, some of it train-bourne, which has to be added.

I also don't think that they're the answer to everything. For one thing, they're rarely practical where different stock share the same platform, unless the doors of both stocks happen to be in the same place, which is unlikely. Additionally, if there's one thing we do know, it's that passengers have quite enough difficulty standing clear of one set of doors. I myself remain to be convinced that adding another layer of difficulty for the commuter who seems to have confused their fat lumbering self with Usain Bolt is always and everywhere the ideal solution.

But don't get me wrong, I'm really no expert on PEDs, they have a number of very obvious advantages (although whether an additional narrowing of the island platform at the Claphams would help I'm not so sure), which may very well be worth it. I also have a slight bias against them, as I feel they ruin the view, but this is a small price to pay if it saves lives. I'm just raising a few points in an attempt to give some explanation as to why they're not yet ubiquitous.

Drivers would usually approach platforms at almost line speed in tunnel sections and then brake. From what I've heard, some of the approach speeds are quicker, some are slower, and some are about the same!

Most drivers enter the platform at line speed and brake with little margin for error. They can't creep along worried that someone might jump under their train.

Years ago when I had 'one under', although I saw the bloke on the track I still managed to put three cars over him. It all depends on where they jump onto the track.

PEDs are the way to go as they'd prevent about 99% of PTI incidents. However, LU doesn't like the cost retro fitting PEDs and the unions are wary as they're a precursor to fully auto working.

I agree with this - it is safe.

As a passenger, my perceptions have been influenced by the media - having read about several incidents in a short time period all on the northern line.

It raises interesting questions for me:

- Wifi allows access to twitter and other social media sites - so incidents can be reported before the emergency services have even arrived - there are multiple youtube clips of station evacuations etc.

- Wifi means people are encouraged to use their mobile devices in underground stations - this service is actively promoted.

-My perception of the northern line is that the platforms are smaller and narrow in places e.g. Clapham Common . with wifi and mobile devices, everyone has a mobile in their hand. Have the number of dropped items on the track gone up since wifi was introduced?

It's the behaviour of passengers which is probably an issue - but revenue generating policies - e.g. wifi - have promoted some of this behaviour...The London Underground is a working railway, not a shopping mall. There is a difference.

At Earlsfield station, its almost impossible to get on a SW Train in the morning rush hour - several trains often pass with passengers waiting to get in. There is a security company employed with several staff members up and down the platform encouraging people to stand back. There is not the same number of staff on some northern line platforms in the rush hour. Maybe this is something that needs to be addressed?

On a crowded platform at Mortlake station toady, coming home after the boat race, one young man had to be moved back behind the yellow line by one of his mates. He was so engrossed in his phone that he didn't react to the horn of the through train. I think he'd had a few to drink as well though.

Second to that ,on reflection, as time progresses I think that "those that walk amongst us" are becoming the norm and the fully aware types are becoming the minority.

But does WiFi provided free of charge (at least for me as an EE customer) encourage people to use their mobile devices on the platforms? Perhaps technology could be used to ping a message to flash on everyones mobile saying "stand back - train approaching" when the train comes in?!

Point taken - many apologies.

It depends on the people. I only use it on the platform if there's quite a while between trains. I tend to find wifi more useful when on the train, allowing your phone to send/rx messages at each stop.

How far back from Old Street does the driver's platform cam cut in?
And there was an idea mooted of using the backside camera to make the phone screen "transparent", showing an image of what's underneath the operator's feet.

When passing through Old Street about half an hour ago there was a message, "Ladies and gentlemen, when using tablets or mobile phones please be careful around the edge of the platform" (or something very similar to that). It had the sound of an announcement recorded by one of the station staff for repeated play rather but whether it was in response to a particular person I don't know (I was on the escalator when I heard it).

I wonder if this is a local initiative or something wider?

The UK press has revealed that the gentleman struck by the Northern Line train at Stockwell station on 10 April, died 3 days later:
Daily Telegraph

I would guess (purely my supposition) that his family didn't want any mention of his passing until he had been laid to rest.

I read this too. Very sad.

I want to stress that my starting this thread was not in response to any particular incident and was just a general question...