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Post by dazz285 on Mar 18, 2016 8:33:40 GMT
Arriva awarded contract to operate London Overground services from 13 November 2016
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Post by Dstock7080 on Mar 18, 2016 10:48:34 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Mar 18, 2016 15:26:10 GMT
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Post by stapler on Mar 18, 2016 16:51:01 GMT
Why does this announcement not fill me with confidence?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 18, 2016 17:16:53 GMT
Why does this announcement not fill me with confidence? I'm not sure tbh, seeing as Arriva already operate the Overground in a 50/50 joint venture with MTR. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 11:11:34 GMT
How does this work? Let's say a freight operator on the NLL screws up thereby delaying the Overground. Arriva will then be fined for those no-fault delays. Will they need to recover the fine from the freight operator? Won't this end up becoming very litigious territory?
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Post by dazz285 on Mar 19, 2016 12:11:54 GMT
How does this work? Let's say a freight operator on the NLL screws up thereby delaying the Overground. Arriva will then be fined for those no-fault delays. Will they need to recover the fine from the freight operator? Won't this end up becoming very litigious territory? This is a regular thing on the Overground already... It's a "Who can we blame to make a claim" culture... |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 19, 2016 12:22:24 GMT
How does this work? Let's say a freight operator on the NLL screws up thereby delaying the Overground. Arriva will then be fined for those no-fault delays. Will they need to recover the fine from the freight operator? Won't this end up becoming very litigious territory? Litigious territory is the bed we've all made for ourselves and we'll all have to lie in it now. I'm constantly staggered by the lengths some will go to in order to extract compensation, even if it was largely their own stupidity that led to the situation. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 19, 2016 18:16:20 GMT
How does this work? Let's say a freight operator on the NLL screws up thereby delaying the Overground. Arriva will then be fined for those no-fault delays. Will they need to recover the fine from the freight operator? Won't this end up becoming very litigious territory? Litigious territory is the bed we've all made for ourselves and we'll all have to lie in it now. I'm constantly staggered by the lengths some will go to in order to extract compensation, even if it was largely their own stupidity that led to the situation. Having helped run a fault attribution system for many years and having reviewed and dealt with all sorts of contested incidents the instances when lawyers get involved are minimal (a handful in tens of thousands of incidents). The vast majority of incidents are easy to deal with because it is completely clear who is responsible and there is no argument. The point of a shared "fault" system as created on the Overground contract is not to create argument. It is about encouraging joint working between all the parties and identifying what went wrong. If there are repeat problems then there is "pressure" to seek a resolution to them. People moan about the LU PPP but what it did force through was a much better understanding of what happened, why it happened and created a financial incentive to get things right. That may mean spending money on new / improved kit, changing maintenance practices or altering how people respond to things so as to reduce incident duration. No one at LU would ever give credit to the PPP these days but does anyone really believe that the current levels of basically decent performance on LU would have come about without the rigour of attribution and all the associated investigation and better understanding by operators and engineers? If you don't understand the railway and how it is / is not working you don't stand a chance of being able to improve it. And just for clarity I am not claiming PPP was perfect (it clearly wasn't) - just that it helped change the ways things were done. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 19, 2016 19:21:32 GMT
Don't mind me, I'm just sounding off Snoggle  ......My youngest daughter was recently delayed on a train from London to Doncaster for a matter of a few minutes. Despite the fact that this cost her nothing in lost earnings or inconvenience (I was late picking her up anyway) she has (it would seem) successfully retrieved a proportion of her fare due to the delay. I don't think this is particularly honest, and certainly not the way she was brought up - and, having told me of her plans to get money back, got a lecture about it all the way down the M180. It cost the rail industry money.....for absolutely no practical purpose. It's just the way people (including my daughter it would seem) think nowadays. Sue you soon as look at you. If there's a significant loss, by all means have a go at a recovering costs, otherwise, save the industry you often rely on a few quid and the expense of administering the refund. One day, this might help save somebody's job, one well down the line, as it sure as hell won't be a bigwig. As far as the simplicity of apportioning guilt for delays on a corporate scale is concerned, I don't think I've ever read of a more unfair way of dealing out the blame. If the cause is consistently down to "third party C" why would anybody blameless take the rap? It just seems like nonsense to me. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 1:34:14 GMT
According to the Committee documents quoted in this London Reconnections article, if there is a delay which is somebody else's fault, the operator (who we now know will be Arriva) will be fined 10% of what they would have been fined if the delay was their fault. The idea being to financially incentivise Arriva to put pressure on Network Rail, other operators, etc. to up their game, but also, as Snoggle says, to encourage them to build better working relationships with Network Rail and others and jointly improve things. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 20, 2016 5:42:23 GMT
According to the Committee documents quoted in this London Reconnections article, if there is a delay which is somebody else's fault, the operator (who we now know will be Arriva) will be fined 10% of what they would have been fined if the delay was their fault. The idea being to financially incentivise Arriva to put pressure on Network Rail, other operators, etc. to up their game, but also, as Snoggle says, to encourage them to build better working relationships with Network Rail and others and jointly improve things. Ah, coercion! |
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Post by phoenixcronin on Mar 20, 2016 17:09:10 GMT
Perhaps someone would like to correct the thread title to Arriva instead of "Ariva"  |
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rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 20, 2016 17:47:09 GMT
Perhaps someone would like to correct the thread title to Arriva instead of "Ariva" Seeing as it was me wot rote it in the firstplase. #fail |
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Post by xercesfobe on Mar 20, 2016 17:58:12 GMT
More money for the German state via DB Schenker opps sorry Arriva - now that sounds more English!
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Post by pib on Jun 28, 2016 9:26:50 GMT
ARRIVA RAIL LONDON will be the identity of the new operator.
New uniforms and ID badges being issued.
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Post by redbond on Jun 28, 2016 13:32:21 GMT
Uniform is set by TfL and won't change (well, supposedly we are getting the new uniform after the new concession starts, West Anglia already have the luxury!) I haven't seen any actual internal documentation saying that it will change from LOROL, just the ownership of LOROL.
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Post by dazz285 on Jun 28, 2016 15:53:34 GMT
Lorol name will change to Arriva Rail London. London Overground Rail Operations Ltd (LOROL) will be no more after November...
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Post by redbond on Jun 29, 2016 15:42:47 GMT
Cheers Daz! NXG are really kept out of the loop, it seems the further away from Swiss Cottage you get, the more forgotten you are! God help Chingford!
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Post by Jerome H on Jun 29, 2016 16:23:14 GMT
Cheers Daz! NXG are really kept out of the loop, it seems the further away from Swiss Cottage you get, the more forgotten you are! God help Chingford! Excuse my ignorance, but what's special about Swiss Cottage? |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 29, 2016 17:58:16 GMT
Cheers Daz! NXG are really kept out of the loop, it seems the further away from Swiss Cottage you get, the more forgotten you are! God help Chingford! Excuse my ignorance, but what's special about Swiss Cottage? The LOROL Head Office is in the big brick office block on Finchley Road right by the tube station and opposite the Swiss Cottage pub. |
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Post by bicbasher on Jul 5, 2016 1:04:53 GMT
Are Arriva keeping the Swiss Cottage office?
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Post by dazz285 on Jul 5, 2016 5:53:59 GMT
Yes they are
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Post by rail2210 on Jul 6, 2016 19:09:51 GMT
Are there going to be any noticeable changes apart from minor timetable changes and the new trains that will eventually enter service?
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Post by dazz285 on Jul 6, 2016 23:30:38 GMT
New uniforms
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Post by jukes on Jul 7, 2016 10:03:02 GMT
New uniforms specified by TfL already issued to staff on West Anglia Inners. Will also be issued progressively to staff on the original lines from late-summer onwards. Not dependant on new concession as this is a TfL specified requirement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 15:26:31 GMT
Apart from the uniforms I hope that there will be no changes to the brand or livery; - 'London Overground' sums up exactly what it is!
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Post by domh245 on Jul 7, 2016 15:28:03 GMT
Apart from the uniforms I hope that there will be no changes to the brand or livery; - 'London Overground' sums up exactly what it is! The branding and livery are tightly specified by TfL, so there will be no change to that. From a passenger point of view, near enough nothing will change. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 7, 2016 16:43:01 GMT
Apart from the uniforms I hope that there will be no changes to the brand or livery; - 'London Overground' sums up exactly what it is! The branding and livery are tightly specified by TfL, so there will be no change to that. From a passenger point of view, near enough nothing will change. I agree we are unlikely to see " thunderbolts and lightning"  on the day that Arriva take over but we do know that a shedload of contract options have been pre-specified by TfL and no doubt priced by Arriva. I do expect to see some off peak frequency improvements on bits of West Anglia before long. I also expect we might see some Boxing Day services at Christmas 2017. They might even manage something for Christmas 2016 but that clearly depends on the scale of planned engineering works affecting the Overground. Beyond that we are obviously looking at the resumption of GOBLIN services and then the phasing in of electric services and new stock on West Anglia / Watford DC. That then allows more intensive peak services on the NLL. That's likely in May 2018 (at my guess) but depends on how quickly the Class 710s are brought into squadron service. We will also have a progressive delivery of enlarged stations / step free access at a few locations but that's a separate initiative to Arriva's takeover. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 7, 2016 16:45:51 GMT
'London Overground' sums up exactly what it is! Except where it goes underground, e.g at Whitechapel (where it is below the Underground!) |
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......My youngest daughter was recently delayed on a train from London to Doncaster for a matter of a few minutes. Despite the fact that this cost her nothing in lost earnings or inconvenience (I was late picking her up anyway) she has (it would seem) successfully retrieved a proportion of her fare due to the delay.
on the day that Arriva take over but we do know that a shedload of contract options have been pre-specified by TfL and no doubt priced by Arriva. I do expect to see some off peak frequency improvements on bits of West Anglia before long. I also expect we might see some Boxing Day services at Christmas 2017. They might even manage something for Christmas 2016 but that clearly depends on the scale of planned engineering works affecting the Overground. Beyond that we are obviously looking at the resumption of GOBLIN services and then the phasing in of electric services and new stock on West Anglia / Watford DC. That then allows more intensive peak services on the NLL. That's likely in May 2018 (at my guess) but depends on how quickly the Class 710s are brought into squadron service. 
