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Post by snoggle on Feb 9, 2015 14:25:08 GMT
From this week's Rail and Underground Panel is this interesting presentation on migrating to the new Crossrail and improvements due to be delivered by the Concession operator. Presentation |
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Post by ashlar on Mar 17, 2015 23:18:48 GMT
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 18, 2015 1:23:25 GMT
That livery feels like it's missing something some how. I want to extend the skirt a little higher up the body side, and maybe a logo or something (perhaps a roundel is coming later?) to offset the acres of white.
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 18, 2015 7:21:42 GMT
Think you will see a blue TfL RAIL roundel in due course.
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 18, 2015 9:12:29 GMT
That livery feels like it's missing something some how. I want to extend the skirt a little higher up the body side, and maybe a logo or something (perhaps a roundel is coming later?) to offset the acres of white. Like you I think we'd all like to see skirts higher up bodies Chris, but Sid James-isms aside, seeing as it's only for a couple of years until they get the new trains I suppose it's saves a bit on blue paint. Once the logo is applied it will break it all up nicely.  |
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 18, 2015 9:26:35 GMT
Just seen the train at Liverpool Street. The skirt fits the sloping area.
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Post by John Tuthill on Mar 18, 2015 10:01:09 GMT
That livery feels like it's missing something some how. I want to extend the skirt a little higher up the body side, and maybe a logo or something (perhaps a roundel is coming later?) to offset the acres of white. A Ladies & Gents silhouette? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 18, 2015 10:04:51 GMT
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Post by stapler on Mar 18, 2015 11:25:10 GMT
Assume the roundel will appear after TFL rail actually take over.
It's rather pleasant, and good to get rid of the hideously ugly Abellio GA "branding".
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Post by domh245 on Mar 18, 2015 19:44:24 GMT
My understanding is that TfL are almost deliberately doing a half-arsed job on these units, so that when they introduce the 345s in the proper crossrail livery and branding, they can give the impression of an improved service. Much like the original LO rebrand was just stickers over the top of the existing livery. It's all about PR spin nowadays!
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Mar 18, 2015 19:54:12 GMT
My understanding is that TfL are almost deliberately doing a half-arsed job on these units, so that when they introduce the 345s in the proper crossrail livery and branding, they can give the impression of an improved service. Much like the original LO rebrand was just stickers over the top of the existing livery. It's all about PR spin nowadays! At least they've bothered to paint these trains Dom. The 313s looked ridiculous when they were Silverlink and even worse when they put the LO stickers on them. I think it's a sensible compromise considering many, with some justification, would feel it to be pointless interim branding and a complete waste of money. |
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Post by astock5000 on Mar 19, 2015 2:21:21 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Mar 19, 2015 9:42:56 GMT
Unless someone has changed their mind the interim livery is depicted in the presentation I linked to in the first post in this thread. It's on page 17 of the pdf. It shows a TfL rail roundel being added to the blue stripe / doors and the yellow front end wrapping round in line with the body shape. To be fair we have 10 weeks for a properly liveried train to be turned out for the start date and obligatory Mayoral grins and photo opportunity.
To be honest I don't really care very much about liveries at the early stage of a takeover. It's far better to get the trains clean, tidy and kept in that condition as was done when LOROL took over from Silverlink. If we have to endure stickers over signs and on train bodies until stations are properly refurbed and new trains arrive then so be it. The effort has to be on making journeys better and much more reliable and I don't think that's going to be easy given the state of Network Rail's infrastructure.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 19, 2015 11:44:19 GMT
Esaiest way to tell a 315 from a 317 is that the latter have gangway connections which project from the cab front whilst the former just have an emergency door in the cab front, and recessed into it. From the side, the easiest recognition factor is that the ventilators in the windows are single-piece in the 315s and two-piece in the 317s (in the first batch the ventilators were not glazed). The roof of a 317 is more rounded and has a number of longitudinal ridges. These characteristics are common to all members of the respective PEP and mark 3 families (respectively classes 313/314/315/507/508 and 150,210,317-322, 455,456) except that later versions of the Mk3 (150/2, 318-322, 456) have non-gangwayed cabs of various designs. The difference is easily noticed in a class 455/7, which has one middle car from a class 508 - the mismatched roofline, different window ventilators, different size of windows in the doors, and different height of the door lock telltale, are all quite noticeable, even after two refurbishment programmes. i1.ytimg.com/vi/hhxDSprpqxc/hqdefault.jpg www.southernelectric.org.uk/news/swt/img/cpce5711tonbridge290208.jpg Superficial features like livery and seating arrangement are not a useful guide as they are easily changed. Class 318s have even lost their gangwayed cabs, whilst class 456s have lost their toilets, and class 320s have gained them! |
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Post by domh245 on Mar 19, 2015 16:45:30 GMT
These characteristics are common to all members of the respective PEP and mark 3 families (respectively classes 313/314/315/507/508 and 150,210,317-322, 455,456) except that later versions of the Mk3 (150/2, 318-322, 456) have non-gangwayed cabs of various designs. The difference is easily noticed in a class 455/7, which has one middle car from a class 508 - the mismatched roofline, different window ventilators, different size of windows in the doors, and different height of the door lock telltale, are all quite noticeable, even after two refurbishment programmes. I think you'll find the 150/2s do have gangways, it is the 150/1s (and the less numerous 150/0s and /9s!) which are slab-ended. I find that another way to tell the mk3s and PEPs apart is looking at the front of them. PEP stock (bar the refurbished merseyrail 507/508s) have got their headlight mounted alongside the tail and marker lights on the drivers side of the cab and the horns are mounted at the top of the evacuation door. The early mk3s have got their headlight mounted above the tail and marker lights on the drivers side and have got their horns fitted into a recess above the cab windows on either side. The next generation of mk3 stock has got conventional BMAC light clusters (the ones with marker/head/tail) on each side of the cab, and have their horns mounted underneath the cab, with a flat(ter) ended roof. The last generation of mk3s have got gangway-less cabs, lights in a distinctively shaped recess, and a noticeable front valance. The 319 is a bit of an outlier in all of this because of the conditions it had to meet in order to be able to run certain thameslink services. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 20, 2015 0:27:03 GMT
I think you'll find the 150/2s do have gangways, it is the 150/1s (and the less numerous 150/0s and /9s!) which are slab-ended.. Indeed, slip of the brain. The mark 3 units have five quite different cab designs, with some minor varaitions. The oldest is the squarish design with the box above the gangway door (apparently intended for a headcode) used on the original "Bedpan"(Bedford - St Pancras) Class 317/1s. This was also used on the 210 diesel-electric prototypes and the first batch of Class 455s (class 455/8). The design has been modified on some of Anglia's 317s by fairing in the box above the gangway, and on Southern's Class 455s (but not SWT's;) by removing the gangway. After the Bedpan design was roundly criticised for its aesthetics, a rounder design was adopted for the remaining 455s (455/7 and 455/9), the Sprinters (class 150) and the Ayrshire class 318s. The first Sprinters had no gangway and a rather stark appearance. The gangways were been removed from the 318s when they were relegated to suburban use. The Sprinter design was followed by the one-off Thameslink design, with no gangway but an emergency door, required for use through the single-track tunnels near Barbican on the Moorgate branch (now closed) Subsequent units (320 Glasgow North, 321 "Dusty Bin" used on Euston and Liverpool Street outer suburbans, 322 (originally Stansted Express but also used on the North Berwick line and now Leeds - Doncaster) and 456 (recently transferred from Southern to SWT), all had the raked-back design with two-piece windscreen, in the latter case rather disfigured by jumper cables because the Southern Region didn't believe in autocouplers. Finally the class 325 postal units are Mark 3 coaches with "Networker" cabs similar to classes 165/365/465/166/466. Further distinction is possible by the number of cars - two (class 150 or 456), three (classes 318, 320) or four (everything else), and whether it makes a growly noise (class 150, 210) or has a coathanger on the roof (classes 317-325). |
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Post by Dom K on Mar 24, 2015 9:36:24 GMT
I saw a 315 at Enfield Town in the livery, LUL White with blue doors and an internal refresh too
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Post by crusty54 on Mar 25, 2015 7:38:40 GMT
Passenger counts on the platforms at Stratford and Liverpool Street this morning.
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Post by rsdworker on Mar 25, 2015 9:40:57 GMT
looks very intestering - we had blue doors on LU for trial which is simllar to that |
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