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Post by snoggle on Dec 12, 2014 20:52:00 GMT
I see that TfL are plugging the improvements that will be delivered under the new concession with KeolisAmey. The essential elements revealed so far are :-
1. Enhanced late evening frequency Bank - Lewisham
2. Enhanced off peak service to Woolwich Arsenal
3. Longer trains at weekends on the Stratford - Canary Wharf route
4. A 5 minute headway on all routes from 2017
Looking at items 1 and 3 I assume this is simpler running more mileage and utilising units that would otherwise stand spare at weekends.
For items 2 and 4 I assume something more substantial is needed in terms of the fleet or the enhancements are not as dazzling as they first appear. The Woolwich Arsenal service enhancement does not say how far the extra service will run - just to Canning Town or further? For the 5 minute service on all routes this will presumably require additional stock or a rebalancing of 2 and 3 car formations - does anyone know? There's an obvious dependency with the Pudding Mill Lane - Bow Church doubling works being completed to allow the enhanced headway but it's the rolling stock fleet that I thought was the constraint on service expansion. Previous TfL plans did not envisage any extra rolling stock purchases until around 2022 but these improvements are due 5 years earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 11:06:39 GMT
Hopefully they'll someday change that cold and unfriendly DVA. It's unpleasant listening to.
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Post by melikepie on Dec 13, 2014 11:43:57 GMT
Just wishful thinking but I hope in future the service all day alternated between Woolwich Arsenal and Beckton, even during the peaks, for the Stratford International Branch, not completely switch to one
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 18, 2015 16:30:57 GMT
Some enhancements coming from 2 February: "Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:
- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"link |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 18, 2015 17:17:53 GMT
Does that mean the Stratford International service is only running to Woolwich Aresenal?
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 18, 2015 17:38:05 GMT
Some enhancements coming from 2 February: "Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:
- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"linkThat suggests Woolwich Arsenal to Stratford International becomes all day which will be great. |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 18, 2015 17:57:35 GMT
Some enhancements coming from 2 February: "Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:
- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"linkHmmm - can't see the loss of the Stratford - Beckton service being popular. Forcing a change at West Ham just looks clumsy to me and I suspect it won't last. It's nice to see a through Stratford Int - Woolwich service and I expect it'll be well used. However so are Stratford to Beckton trains. I expect they are trying to squeeze the best service out of the current fleet but illogical service patterns that don't cover key demand corridors won't go down well with the public. |
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Post by Hassaan on Jan 18, 2015 18:53:17 GMT
Some enhancements coming from 2 February: "Some routes and first and last train times will also change. These include:
- Twice as many trains between Woolwich Arsenal and Canning Town during off-peak hours and at weekends with a train every 4-5 minutes
- Beckton-Stratford International service will be replaced with a Beckton-West Ham service operating from 10:00 to 16:00 Monday to Friday and from 08:30 Saturdays and 10:30 Sundays to 19:30. Interchange at West Ham for trains towards Stratford International. When no West Ham service is shown, take the first train and change at Canning Town
- Twice as many trains between Bank and Lewisham from 21:00 to 23:30 Monday to Friday with a train every 5 minutes
- Longer 3-carriage DLR trains at weekends between Stratford and Canary Wharf, increasing capacity by half"linkHmmm - can't see the loss of the Stratford - Beckton service being popular. Forcing a change at West Ham just looks clumsy to me and I suspect it won't last. It's nice to see a through Stratford Int - Woolwich service and I expect it'll be well used. However so are Stratford to Beckton trains. I expect they are trying to squeeze the best service out of the current fleet but illogical service patterns that don't cover key demand corridors won't go down well with the public. It does look like a halving of the frequency between Beckton and Canning Town outside the peaks and the times mentioned. The only way I found out about it was a small yellow sticker on the current timetable posters, which said "service improvements from 2 February" and to go to the website to find them out. TBH I'm not actually too sure which branch out of Woolwich or Beckton is busier away from the peaks, it is definitely Woolwich during the peaks but outside those times it is roughly equal. |
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 18, 2015 19:14:52 GMT
No cut to the service between Beckton and Canning Town as there will still be the Tower Gateway trains.
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Post by Chris M on Jan 18, 2015 21:43:12 GMT
The argument I've always heard for the current service from Stratford International (Woolwich in the peaks, Beckton off peak) is that the demand profile of the lines is very different - The Woolwich branch is very busy in the peaks but quieter off peak so the 5 minute service to Canning Town (where many people change for the JLE) is not needed all day; whereas the Beckton branch has a much flatter profile with ExCeL and UEL generating traffic spread more through the day and often busiest off-peak than is seen on the Woolwich branch - the 5 minute off-peak service was better used than it would be to Woolwich and the branch could cope with only a 10 minute service in the peaks.
From when I lived in the area, that does seem to be true of the Beckton branch east of Royal Victoria (which is used massively more in the peaks than off peak) excluding major events at ExCeL (and many of them don't generate batches of traffic but a flow all day). The Beckton-Stratford direct service will be missed for its convenience though. What most people living in the area want to see though is trains from Stratford (International) alternating destinations all day.
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Post by stapler on Jan 18, 2015 22:27:09 GMT
Why not more through Stratford - Lewisham trains, rather than the present Canary Wharf reversers?
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Post by Chris M on Jan 18, 2015 22:54:38 GMT
I don't know. It would certainly improve journeys from the Lewisham branch to Poplar and points east of there.
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Post by davidp on Jan 20, 2015 11:35:26 GMT
Why not more through Stratford - Lewisham trains, rather than the present Canary Wharf reversers? There are times when I would like to see that happen but I think some of the reasons why no off-peak services run between Stratford and Lewisham could be: 1. the frequencies of the two routes differ so dovetailing them may prove a challenge; 2. the present off-peak Canary Wharf to Lewisham provision is more than adequate so there's no necessity for more trains 3. it's very noticeable that on trains from Lewisham coming into Canary Wharf, significantly more people stay on the train towards Bank than change to go to Stratford so reducing the number of Bank to Lewisham services (presumably to be replaced by Stratford to Lewisham and Bank to Canary Wharf services) would potentially cause more inconvenience than the present situation. |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 20, 2015 11:54:48 GMT
Reducing the number of Bank-Lewisham trains is a non-starter.
From my point of view living on the Isle of Dogs, what would be really helpful would be Woolwich or Beckton (or at least Canning Town) to Canary Wharf (or points south thereof) services to avoid the need to change at both Canary Wharf and Poplar or go via street level at Westferry.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 20, 2015 13:36:11 GMT
Reducing the number of Bank-Lewisham trains is a non-starter. From my point of view living on the Isle of Dogs, what would be really helpful would be Woolwich or Beckton (or at least Canning Town) to Canary Wharf (or points south thereof) services to avoid the need to change at both Canary Wharf and Poplar or go via street level at Westferry. Sometimes run Woolwich to Lewisham during weekend engineering works. |
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Post by Chris M on Jan 20, 2015 17:55:04 GMT
And there is also one service a day Gallions Reach to Lewisham at the start of the evening peak, but neither are helpful the majority of the time.
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Post by snoggle on May 27, 2015 17:31:05 GMT
A recent Mayors Question and Answer show that TfL is planning further service improvements for the Beckton branch.
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