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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 14:27:13 GMT
I recently went to New York City and while there visited the Subway museum which is in an old station called Court St
I was thinking...wouldn't it make sense to use Aldwych tube station as a museum soley for the Underground , and line up train carrages in the platforms the way Court St does?
I think that would be a great idea....
Any opinions?
P.S Here is a video I took at the Court St New York City Subway Museum .. even got a cat in there too....meow:
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 19, 2014 15:24:20 GMT
Lovely idea but access would be a major problem.
Would also have to be restricted to the Tube stock.
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 19, 2014 15:31:42 GMT
Lovely idea but access would be a major problem. Would also have to be restricted to the Tube stock. Is anything going to happen to the defunct platforms at Moorgate? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 16:03:22 GMT
Access is the reason Aldwych is not use as often as you would expect.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 19, 2014 16:06:29 GMT
The Moorgate platforms are no longer connected to the outside world. What happened to the plan to use them as sidings?
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Post by Indefatigable on Oct 19, 2014 16:28:41 GMT
What do you mean by that?
Do you mean you can not get on to the platforms themselves or the platforms can not be reached by train?
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 19, 2014 16:39:04 GMT
The Moorgate platforms are no longer connected to the outside world. What happened to the plan to use them as sidings? Good question |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Oct 19, 2014 17:55:16 GMT
What do you mean by that? Do you mean you can not get on to the platforms themselves or the platforms can not be reached by train? The latter. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 18:06:19 GMT
Lovely idea but access would be a major problem. Would also have to be restricted to the Tube stock. Is anything going to happen to the defunct platforms at Moorgate? What defunct platforms at Moorgate ? |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Oct 19, 2014 18:13:27 GMT
Is anything going to happen to the defunct platforms at Moorgate? What defunct platforms at Moorgate ? The two ex-National Rail platforms at the back of the station. I'm not sure of the numbering sequence but Moorgate sub-surface station has six platforms. The ones being discussed are the furthest two away from the through platforms. There are (or were) plans to turn the old National Rail lines between Moorgate and Farringdon into sidings for S Stock. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 18:19:26 GMT
What defunct platforms at Moorgate ? The two ex-National Rail platforms at the back of the station. I'm not sure of the numbering sequence but Moorgate sub-surface station has six platforms. The ones being discussed are the furthest two away from the through platforms. There are (or were) plans to turn the old National Rail lines between Moorgate and Farringdon into sidings for S Stock. Yup, they're platforms 5 & 6; originally, of course, the City Widened Lines platforms, eventually they ended up being served by Thameslink until comparatively recently. Diagram (from me blog, stripes indicate a disused platform, the Thameslink line shown is, as has been pointed out, disused and there's currently a fair amount of junk on the track, unless I'm much mistaken):   |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Oct 19, 2014 18:23:39 GMT
The two ex-National Rail platforms at the back of the station. I'm not sure of the numbering sequence but Moorgate sub-surface station has six platforms. The ones being discussed are the furthest two away from the through platforms. There are (or were) plans to turn the old National Rail lines between Moorgate and Farringdon into sidings for S Stock. Yup, they're platforms 5 & 6; originally, of course, the City Widened Lines platforms, eventually they ended up being served by Thameslink until comparatively recently. Tut saves a Google everyone!  Knew he would. Cheers Tut!  |
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Post by melikepie on Oct 19, 2014 20:38:23 GMT
Aren't they being used in the Crossrail works, especially when it links to Liverpool Street? Just like Whitechapel?
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 19, 2014 21:10:55 GMT
I suspect there are very many issues - not least access as has been alluded to. The lifts were ostensibly to cost £3 million odd in 1994 to replace so let's say £10 million now. Then you have a stumbling block in that there are steps to the platform - DDA would be an issue. You'd need plenty of staff down the bottom for evacuation purposes. If it were run as an operational railway it would also need operational trained staff which LTM staff are not. I'd really really love to see it happen, but I'm not convinced it will any time soon.
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 19, 2014 21:32:12 GMT
I suspect there are very many issues - not least access as has been alluded to. The lifts were ostensibly to cost £3 million odd in 1994 to replace so let's say £10 million now. Then you have a stumbling block in that there are steps to the platform - DDA would be an issue. You'd need plenty of staff down the bottom for evacuation purposes. If it were run as an operational railway it would also need operational trained staff which LTM staff are not. I'd really really love to see it happen, but I'm not convinced it will any time soon. Isn't it still also the #1 film location/video shoot place & thus earning money for TfL? Suspect a reopening would involve escalators, too, even if only for museum use-the shop at LTM has both, as an example & that's just the shop! The one place on the network I can think of might be Mill Hill East, but only if there's space beyond the operational station for a train-shed style museum with platforms? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2014 23:17:29 GMT
But the whole idea of Aldwych is that it is an authentic Underground deep level tube station.... and thus would have more of an atmosphere, rather than an open air one at Mill Hill East
If they could do it at Court St in New York... why can't LTM do it here ? If you look at my video in my first post, you can see it is all underground in a real station
Maybe they can just install one lift?
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 20, 2014 7:54:28 GMT
The New York museum is in a sub surface station just below street level and making it accessible and safe was relatively easy, Aldwych is a deep level tube station with all the safety and access difficulties that implies.
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 20, 2014 9:15:52 GMT
The New York museum is in a sub surface station just below street level and making it accessible and safe was relatively easy, Aldwych is a deep level tube station with all the safety and access difficulties that implies. Quite - much as I'd love to see it happen, really I would, I'm not sure it will without a huge amount of money coming out of nowhere. I seem to remember that lifts of that depth are fitted in pairs so as to enable transfer of passengers in the shaft if one breaks down rather than having to hand-wind the lift. |
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Post by abe on Oct 20, 2014 12:37:31 GMT
Suspect a reopening would involve escalators, too, even if only for museum use-the shop at LTM has both, as an example & that's just the shop! Um, no it doesn't. I can say this with certainty as I've just returned from the Museum. There are lifts for visitors to get to the 'start' of the displays, but the shop has a pair of staircases - one at the front right, and the other tucked away at the back. |
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 20, 2014 13:28:28 GMT
Yeh, my mistake-shop did have a lift as well last time I went (a year ago), but noted it wasn't working then.
Brainstorm last night, I'm afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 14:38:19 GMT
What defunct platforms at Moorgate ? The two ex-National Rail platforms at the back of the station. I'm not sure of the numbering sequence but Moorgate sub-surface station has six platforms. The ones being discussed are the furthest two away from the through platforms. There are (or were) plans to turn the old National Rail lines between Moorgate and Farringdon into sidings for S Stock. The platforms that are no longer used to belong to Thameslink then they used to run services in the peak from I think it was Bedford to Moorgate I also heard that those platforms could be used for Crossrail as when I pass through I hear a lot of activity on the other side of the fake wall. |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Oct 20, 2014 16:12:25 GMT
This is a great colour picture I've seen on Disused Stations. org. Not only does it show a Potters Bar bound NR diesel multiple unit at Moorgate (platform 5 it would seem) but with the year being 1964, it's also back in the days when Moorgate subsurface was open to the daylight. old5.jpg) |
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Post by miff on Oct 20, 2014 18:54:27 GMT
Access to an Aldwych museum could be via train from Holborn only, however Holborn is probably so busy already that encouraging extra visitors to that station would not be seen as a good idea. Since the line remains operable, however, I'm sure an occasional special shuttle on open days would be very popular.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 19:17:07 GMT
Access to an Aldwych museum could be via train from Holborn only, however Holborn is probably so busy already that encouraging extra visitors to that station would not be seen as a good idea. Since the line remains operable, however, I'm sure an occasional special shuttle on open days would be very popular. That is a cool idea About Holborn being too busy, isn't there a disused extra platform there ? |
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Post by superteacher on Oct 20, 2014 19:51:07 GMT
This is a great colour picture I've seen on Disused Stations. org. Not only does it show a Potters Bar bound NR diesel multiple unit at Moorgate (platform 5 it would seem) but with the year being 1964, it's also back in the days when Moorgate subsurface was open to the daylight. Seen this one before, but it's a great shot of how things used to be there. Shame they couldn't have got an A stock in the shot! |
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Post by superteacher on Oct 20, 2014 19:52:39 GMT
The two ex-National Rail platforms at the back of the station. I'm not sure of the numbering sequence but Moorgate sub-surface station has six platforms. The ones being discussed are the furthest two away from the through platforms. There are (or were) plans to turn the old National Rail lines between Moorgate and Farringdon into sidings for S Stock. The platforms that are no longer used to belong to Thameslink then they used to run services in the peak from I think it was Bedford to Moorgate I also heard that those platforms could be used for Crossrail as when I pass through I hear a lot of activity on the other side of the fake wall. Crossrail is at deep level at Moorgate, so using the defunct platforms isn't an option. They are also dead end platforms. |
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Post by miff on Oct 20, 2014 20:10:32 GMT
Access to an Aldwych museum could be via train from Holborn only, however Holborn is probably so busy already that encouraging extra visitors to that station would not be seen as a good idea. Since the line remains operable, however, I'm sure an occasional special shuttle on open days would be very popular. That is a cool idea About Holborn being too busy, isn't there a disused extra platform there ? The Aldwych branch originally had 2 platforms at Holborn. One became disused very early on; the track is long gone and the space divided up for other uses. The other platform is still available. However platform capacity is not the issue - Holborn is a very busy interchange and the ticket halls, escalaters and passageways are packed with Central Line and Piccadilly Line passengers almost all the time. So I doubt LUL would want to encourage large numbers of extra visitors on a regular basis. |
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 21, 2014 9:52:08 GMT
Any museum has to have enough income to cover the costs of running it. Aldwych would cost a fortune and could never do this.
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Post by castlebar on Oct 21, 2014 15:30:09 GMT
Crusty 54 is correct.
OK, so there are UndergrounD fans on this site, but nationally, such enthusiasts are a very small percentage of the population.
Such a museum would be a guaranteed money loser. Anyone who thinks differently should get out more into the real world of economics and bean counters.
Who should pay for the losses?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 15:41:30 GMT
Crusty 54 is correct. OK, so there are UndergrounD fans on this site, but nationally, such enthusiasts are a very small percentage of the population. Such a museum would be a guaranteed money loser. Anyone who thinks differently should get out more into the real world of economics and bean counters. Who should pay for the losses? The same percentage could be the same for New York..but their subway museum has been successful for years |
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