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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 20:05:31 GMT
When I first bought the model of ths 59 stock some years back.. I noticed that the front of the 59 train was totally flat... But the 38 stock front came forward a bit. I thought at the time this was a bit odd...
I checked the front of the 38 stock in the museum and the front actually does come out, as the model depicts. But I never could check on a 59 stock... Until last week. I confirmed my suspicions in Mangapps Railway Museum where the guy has a 59 stock car... and I checked the front of the carraige
The front of the 59 stock comes out exactly like the 38 does.. same dimensions too.. I took photos to prove it.. I will post them
So that was one error EFE made there
Opinions?
Cheers
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 10, 2014 22:43:54 GMT
There were lots of errors EFE made. They are not a bad train otherwise.
The issues I've noted:
No butterfly cocks
Door fault lights in the wrong place
Extra trailing end grab rails by com door
Compressors wrong on trailers
Transfers on the trailers
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 10:25:24 GMT
I didn't notice those...although I am not really clued up on those side of trains
Another error is the shape of the trailing end and trailers end doors on the 38 stock... they should be curved at the top, but they have made them the same shape as the 59's
I admit they are good models too.... I just wish I would have motorised them
I hope they do more of the tube stock.... the A60 stock would be a good one, and I would really like to see the Piccadilly 73 stock made and the 72's as models
But I can't see it happening as it has been around 10 years since the release of the 38/59 stock....and surely they would have done it by now
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 10:27:14 GMT
Here is the pictures I took ... Here is the first of the front end of the 38 stock in the Transport museum...  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 10:32:56 GMT
And here is one I took of the front of the 59 stock : See how it also comes out a bit...  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 11, 2014 17:05:31 GMT
Yes the 1938 stock have even more errors! Most of them shouldn't have door fault lights and the doors are wrong.
Most cars taper in at the ends. I think only the 1983 stock was totally flat at the cab and that looked pretty grim!
There has been a lot of talk about new models. CO/CP would be a good idea as Q38 and R stock could also come out of it with only 3 masters.
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Post by The Tram Man on Oct 17, 2014 0:01:53 GMT
May i just quickly ask, in what way are the 1938-stock doors wrong? They look alright to me. There has been a lot of talk about new models. Talk from EFE or from collectors? |
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Post by arun on Oct 17, 2014 13:51:26 GMT
Apropos of nothing whatsoever, this is a pic. of the new 1938 cab from Radley Models currently under development - Obviously it needs the roof vent adding but it does also show that the two lateral cab front windows are angled backwards. Oddly enough, the roof line at the front is a continuous curve so that if you look at where the top of the centre door approaches the roof there is a chord-shaped overhang. I think it's that which gives the 1938TS its very distinctive appearance. This cab, together with the forward body section, will be on display at the Langley show Sunday 26 Oct. Arun  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 17, 2014 13:54:55 GMT
May i just quickly ask, in what way are the 1938-stock doors wrong? They look alright to me. There has been a lot of talk about new models. Talk from EFE or from collectors? The 1938 stock com door windows are flat on top and should be gently curved. The talk is from Bachmann! |
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Post by The Tram Man on Oct 17, 2014 15:20:03 GMT
The 1938 stock com door windows are flat on top and should be gently curved. Huh. Well, as the com doors aren't showing when the train is coupled it's no big deal. I thought you were talking about the passenger doors. The talk is from Bachmann! No way! So, we might be seeing RTR models in the future? Or is that just wishfull thinking?  |
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 17, 2014 15:58:41 GMT
Seeing as there is now some sort of tie-up between Bachmann and EFE a powered EFE tube train is a possibility.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 16:56:36 GMT
I would want the models exterior looking as authentic as possible... (interior doesn't matter that much, except for colour scheme , and seat layout, etc) Here is the 1938 stock trailer end door:  And here is the 1959 stock trailer end door:  As you can see they are totally different doors The rest of the train, including passenger doors, windows, etc, of the 38 stock and 59 stock are identical...I have cheked this myself It is interesting to note that the 59 , 62, 67/72 73 and D stocks all had that same trailer end door design....only the rest of the trains were different |
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 17, 2014 17:11:58 GMT
I would want the models exterior looking as authentic as possible... (interior doesn't matter that much, except for colour scheme , and seat layout, etc) Here is the 1938 stock trailer end door: And here is the 1959 stock trailer end door: As you can see they are totally different doors The rest of the train, including passenger doors, windows, etc, of the 38 stock and 59 stock are identical...I have cheked this myself It is interesting to note that the 59 , 62, 67/72 73 and D stocks all had that same trailer end door design....only the rest of the trains were different I stand corrected, but I'm sure the 49 stock, the converted NDMs had the latter types of connecting doors? |
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Post by The Tram Man on Oct 17, 2014 18:19:56 GMT
Seeing as there is now some sort of tie-up between Bachmann and EFE a powered EFE tube train is a possibility. As far as i understood it, Bachmann are just suppliers of EFE models. But if there is a greater partnership than that, then i will have to keep my eyes open! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 19:30:13 GMT
I would want the models exterior looking as authentic as possible... (interior doesn't matter that much, except for colour scheme , and seat layout, etc) Here is the 1938 stock trailer end door: And here is the 1959 stock trailer end door: As you can see they are totally different doors The rest of the train, including passenger doors, windows, etc, of the 38 stock and 59 stock are identical...I have cheked this myself It is interesting to note that the 59 , 62, 67/72 73 and D stocks all had that same trailer end door design....only the rest of the trains were different I stand corrected, but I'm sure the 49 stock, the converted NDMs had the latter types of connecting doors? What is the 1949 stock? All film or vehicles of 38 stock I have been on or seen, including the museum's and the Isle of Wight ones, the connecting doors are curved at the top like my first pictures... Both at the frame and the window bit |
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 17, 2014 20:19:36 GMT
What is the 1949 stock? All film or vehicles of 38 stock I have been on or seen, including the museum's and the Isle of Wight ones, the connecting doors are curved at the top like my first pictures... Both at the frame and the window bit These were 90+ addition UNDM(Uncoupling Non Driving-Motors) that were intended for the Bakerloo extension to Camberwell. When two units were attached i.e. 3+4 there would only one driving cab 'in the middle' They had a shunting panel where the guards panel would have been. They were used on the Northern & Piccadilly. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 20:30:07 GMT
The 1983 trains also had the same design of end doorway too...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 20:53:11 GMT
The 1983 trains also had the same design of end doorway too... Yes...they did. And I think the C stock did aswell So all the mentioned tube vehicles, from 1959 through to about the mid 80's had exactly the same trailer doors!!! Great I have compared the 59 stock one to the 73 stock during a trip to Heathrow and even the paneling on the door and the bolts.. among other details are spot on identical Honestly I find that weird....all these different trains.......yet exactly the same trailer end doors ? |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2014 20:57:10 GMT
So all the mentioned tube vehicles, from 1959 through to about the mid 80's had exactly the same trailer doors!!! Honestly I find that weird....why the same trailer end doors...yet different train ? from 1949 it would seem........ why is it weird? There are probably many components common from one type to the next: reduces the number of spares you need to carry, and why change for change's sake? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 20:57:28 GMT
What is the 1949 stock? All film or vehicles of 38 stock I have been on or seen, including the museum's and the Isle of Wight ones, the connecting doors are curved at the top like my first pictures... Both at the frame and the window bit These were 90+ addition UNDM(Uncoupling Non Driving-Motors) that were intended for the Bakerloo extension to Camberwell. When two units were attached i.e. 3+4 there would only one driving cab 'in the middle' They had a shunting panel where the guards panel would have been. They were used on the Northern & Piccadilly. Are there any photos of them ? |
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 17, 2014 21:10:37 GMT
These were 90+ addition UNDM(Uncoupling Non Driving-Motors) that were intended for the Bakerloo extension to Camberwell. When two units were attached i.e. 3+4 there would only one driving cab 'in the middle' They had a shunting panel where the guards panel would have been. They were used on the Northern & Piccadilly. Are there any photos of them ? Check out Piers Connors '1938 Stock'(Capital Transport) or type '1949 tube stock' on Wikipedia.  |
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Post by phillw48 on Oct 17, 2014 21:36:49 GMT
49 stock is the remaining part of the 38 stock order that was delayed due to the war, virtually identical to the 38 stock and referred to as such.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2014 21:38:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 21:41:16 GMT
Thanks fpr pictures
So the 49 stock had the same end doors as the 59 did...cool
It says on Wikipedia that they were taken out of service round 72-73...
I wonder why the 38 built ones were the ones to last until 1988 on the last day...and not the 49
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2014 22:19:12 GMT
I wonder why the 38 built ones were the ones to last until 1988 on the last day...and not the 49 Possibly because they were non-standard, or because the 1938 stock had had a mid-life overhaul and the 1949 hadn't got to that point yet. Or maybe simply because the need for UNDMs had gone (the trailers lasted a bit longer). (UNDMs were apparently a nuisance on the Bakerloo, because of the long distance from Watford Junction to Croxley shed - in those days there were regular ecs workings of 3 car sets as some off peak services were run with four cars only). I stand corrected, but I'm sure the 49 stock, the converted NDMs had the latter types of connecting doors? Not converted - they were new build. You may be confusing them with the "58" trailers, which were standard stock cars converted for use with 1938 stock. (so called because there were 58 of them - the conversion was in the early fifties) |
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 17, 2014 22:24:44 GMT
I wonder why the 38 built ones were the ones to last until 1988 on the last day...and not the 49 Possibly because they were non-standard, or because the 1938 stock had had a mid-life overhaul and the 1949 hadn't got to that point yet. Or maybe simply because the need for UNDMs had gone (the trailers lasted a bit longer). (UNDMs were apparently a nuisance on the Bakerloo, because of the long distance from Watford Junction to Croxley shed - in those days there were regular ecs workings of 3 car sets as some off peak services were run with four cars only). I stand corrected, but I'm sure the 49 stock, the converted NDMs had the latter types of connecting doors? Not converted - they were new build. You may be confusing them with the "58" trailers, which were standard stock cars converted for use with 1938 stock. (so called because there were 58 of them - the conversion was in the early fifties) Thanks for setting the record straight |
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Post by arun on Oct 17, 2014 22:29:31 GMT
Before we get too carried away by diversions into DM to T conversions, I feel it necess. to point out that it isn't the trailer [inter-car connecting] door that is shown as having a curved top. The photo shows a guards panel - i.e., that particular photographed door is a trailing end door on a DM. 1938 trailers may or may not have had this type of door but clearly some DMs did.
Arun
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2014 22:33:41 GMT
Before we get too carried away by diversions into DM to T conversions, I feel it necess. to point out that it isn't the trailer [inter-car connecting] door that is shown as having a curved top. The photo shows a guards panel - i.e., that particular photographed door is a trailing end door on a DM. 1938 trailers may or may not have had this type of door but clearly some DMs did. Arun I have been on the 1938 train at Acton and the trailer end doors are curved at the top too They would have been the same as the driving motors so there would be consistency Same goes for the 59 ones.... I went on them enough times to go to school in the 90's and the driving motors and the trailers all had straight tops on the end doors |
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 17, 2014 23:30:51 GMT
Correct the 1949 cars were like the later 1956/59/62 cars re the R or S doors. The 1949 cars were designed to supplement the 1938 stock.
The 1949 cars were withdrawn earlier than the 1938 stock because they were non standard. They had different bogies so were 'different'. The new 1972 stock was being delivered to replace the 1938 cars. The shunt units on the 49 cars were required for the 72 stock although some trains entered service without shunt units.
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