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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 26, 2014 23:20:22 GMT
I realise that the Drain does not normally run on a Sunday, but I was wondering how such a service is provided. Is there a special WTT provided for Sunday running and how are drivers allocated to run the service, although I presume there is some kind of rota based system should Sunday running take place?
I've often wondered about it ever since I learnt there was no Sunday service normally, so I hope you can satisfy my curiosity
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 27, 2014 2:04:09 GMT
There's no Sunday service. Its as simple as that really.
No Sunday service = no drivers rostered at Leytonstone depot to cover the Waterloo & City line.
If there was ever a requirement to do so a special timetable would likely operate on the Central line to free up the drivers required from Leytonstone depot.
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Post by Indefatigable on Sept 27, 2014 2:24:02 GMT
Thats what I was meaning - as there was Sunday running during the Olympics wasn't there? Just curious to know if there was a special procedure for running on a Sunday on the W&C or, as you say, do a special on the Central
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 28, 2014 12:24:02 GMT
There was a combine wide agreement to relax certain parameters in order to accommodate the Olympics. On top of that all lines operated special timetables - in other words normal working went out the door during Olympics.
To run a sunday service today we would do what I said above; special timetable on the Central line (ie, reduced service) which would then free up the required drivers from Leytonstone depot
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 28, 2014 13:13:26 GMT
The Waterloo and City line has run on Sunday's in the last few years, this was because of enginering work on other lines, not just for the 2012 games.
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Post by Tomcakes on Sept 28, 2014 17:40:16 GMT
Is there no way of achieving the extra staff on a Sunday without cutting back elsewhere? I know LUL doesn't like paying overtime, but isn't this an exceptional circumstance (e.g. in engineering works) - or alter rotas well in advance etc.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 28, 2014 18:16:51 GMT
Drivers cannot work prearranged overtime and duties cannot be changed without relevant notice periods being adheared to. Rest days, AFAIK, must remain as rostered.
All Waterloo & City line drivers are based at Leytonstone so that is the sole source of staffing.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 28, 2014 19:03:51 GMT
Drivers cannot work prearranged overtime..... Sorry, am I understanding this correctly, overtime can only be arranged when a shift is due to end and there is no capacity to ask Operators in advance if they would be able/like to work extra hours? Coming from the world of retail this shocks me. |
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Post by causton on Sept 28, 2014 19:11:28 GMT
Drivers cannot work prearranged overtime..... Sorry, am I understanding this correctly, overtime can only be arranged when a shift is due to end and there is no capacity to ask Operators in advance if they would be able/like to work extra hours? Coming from the world of retail this shocks me. Coming from the world of retail, but knowing what the railway industry is like, this does not shock me! |
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Sept 28, 2014 19:18:47 GMT
Drivers cannot work prearranged overtime..... Sorry, am I understanding this correctly, overtime can only be arranged when a shift is due to end and there is no capacity to ask Operators in advance if they would be able/like to work extra hours? Coming from the world of retail this shocks me. I'm sure a T/Op will explain better, but it's primarily to avoid fatigue that, on LU at least, there is only overtime paid when a driver is unable to finish their shift (usually because of service disruption when they are not in the right place to book off at the right time). I believe rest day working is also affected by the framework of agreement for trains-side. Station-side is different - overtime and rest-day working is offered out in advance. |
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Sept 28, 2014 20:43:52 GMT
Drivers cannot work prearranged overtime and duties cannot be changed without relevant notice periods being adheared to. Rest days, AFAIK, must remain as rostered. All Waterloo & City line drivers are based at Leytonstone so that is the sole source of staffing. Yes thats right. Only Leytonstone drivers are qualified to drive the W&C line. All other Central line crew depots (eg West Ruislip, White City and Hainault) are not trained to work down there. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 28, 2014 21:25:07 GMT
Drivers cannot work prearranged overtime and duties cannot be changed without relevant notice periods being adheared to. Rest days, AFAIK, must remain as rostered. All Waterloo & City line drivers are based at Leytonstone so that is the sole source of staffing. Yes thats right. Only Leytonstone drivers are qualified to drive the W&C line. All other Central line crew depots (eg West Ruislip, White City and Hainault) are not trained to work down there. Which they are no doubt very glad about! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2014 22:08:15 GMT
Yes thats right. Only Leytonstone drivers are qualified to drive the W&C line. All other Central line crew depots (eg West Ruislip, White City and Hainault) are not trained to work down there. Which they are no doubt very glad about! Apparently some people like it. I don't know, I think I'd enjoy the novelty - at least for a bit, I suppose that wears off quite quickly when you've only got two stations  - and the driving in tripcock mode (or however it's best to describe it). On the whole, though, I expect you're right. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 29, 2014 0:25:13 GMT
Sorry, am I understanding this correctly, overtime can only be arranged when a shift is due to end and there is no capacity to ask Operators in advance if they would be able/like to work extra hours? Coming from the world of retail this shocks me. Not quite - drivers cannot do prearranged overtime at all. The only circumstance in which a driver may claim overtime is if they get off their last train at the end of their duty later than the duty book off time. That is it. If a trip cannot be covered by a driver that's sitting spare, it will be canceled. Drivers cannot work their rest days. Station staff however can do prearranged overtime and can also work their rest days. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 0:29:25 GMT
There is no agreement for voluntary overtime or rest day working on the "train side", if there are duties uncovered then you need more staff.
There are no actual W&C TOps, the duties are mixed into the roster and all Leytonstone TOps have to work down there at least once every six months in order to keep our licence up to date. Some people love it, personally I loathe it, its like Groundhog Day; get on train, drive train to Bank, change ends, drive to Waterloo, wait in step-back room for next train, drive to Bank, change ends........go mad.
hobbayne - you forgot Loughton in the depot list
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 1:08:20 GMT
There are no actual W&C TOps, the duties are mixed into the roster and all Leytonstone TOps have to work down there at least once every six months in order to keep our licence up to date. How long has it been staffed from Leytonstone? I seem to recall that at one point Bakerloo T/Ops staffed it? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 29, 2014 5:37:48 GMT
Advance overtime can be put into engineering work or Bank Holiday working sheets but the required notice must be given and any overtime paid at the appropriate rate.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 29, 2014 7:11:47 GMT
You had to muddy the waters!   You are of course quite correct, but in the context of this thread I'm not sure such working would produce a sunday service on the Waterloo & City line. I could certainly see the Unions raising an eyebrow if that tactic was exploited to such an extent. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 29, 2014 7:21:48 GMT
Ah, of course, I had forgotten spare turns.
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hobbayne
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Post by hobbayne on Sept 29, 2014 19:49:19 GMT
There is no agreement for voluntary overtime or rest day working on the "train side", if there are duties uncovered then you need more staff. There are no actual W&C TOps, the duties are mixed into the roster and all Leytonstone TOps have to work down there at least once every six months in order to keep our licence up to date. Some people love it, personally I loathe it, its like Groundhog Day; get on train, drive train to Bank, change ends, drive to Waterloo, wait in step-back room for next train, drive to Bank, change ends........go mad. hobbayne - you forgot Loughton in the depot list Sorry Loughton  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 5:51:12 GMT
Advance overtime can be put into engineering work or Bank Holiday working sheets but the required notice must be given and any overtime paid at the appropriate rate. Most normal Sunday shifts are between 7 and 8 hours long so any overtime incurred by special working is rarely more than an hour, usually a lot less. |
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Sept 30, 2014 7:51:19 GMT
In my time on the Underground (1970-74) there was no overtime allowed except during service disruption. ISTR one or two duties had a few minutes rostered overtime for some reason. The union view at the time was that no overtime=more staff required=more jobs=less unemployment. In my time on BR at Waterloo, the W&C was loved or loathed; for many it was regularly covered on rest day working where rest day working was encouraged due to staff shortages. Overtime was not worked at Waterloo s this would cut down on rest day working. The only time I worked the W&C on a Sunday was for filming an episode of Dempsey and Makepeace. 14 hours @ Sunday rate kerrrrrrrrrchinggggggggg! edit to add and when the "Moorgate" train stops were installed, a Sunday for testing the equipment. Tested the train stops at over 20mph and they didn't work, the trip cocks bounced over them!! |
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- and the driving in tripcock mode (or however it's best to describe it). On the whole, though, I expect you're right.
