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WTT 68
Aug 20, 2014 11:05:20 GMT
Post by superteacher on Aug 20, 2014 11:05:20 GMT
I'm assuming this will come in next May when all night Fri and Sat running begins.
What lessons will be learnt from WTT 67. From reading comments from Aslefshreugged, it seems that the current timetable is putting too much strain on the trains abd crews.
From my own observations, there seems to be very few peaks where there isn't at least one train cancellation, probably due to defective stock or driver not available.
I understand that 100 kph running is to return with the new timetable. Are they also going to attempt another frequency increase to get the westbound evening peak level back to 30 tph? I've also heard rumours that 33 tph will be attempted on the eastbound in the evening peak.
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WTT 68
Sept 19, 2014 16:27:37 GMT
Post by stapler on Sept 19, 2014 16:27:37 GMT
I hope one lesson to be learned from WTT67 is that there need to be more reversers/trains put in service from Loughton/Debden in the AM peak, especially after 0745 to prevent gross overcrowding on the WB from stations Loughton-Snaresbrook. Epping station car park, which attracts hundreds of long-distance car commuters taking advantage of Zone 6 fares from as far away as Cambridge, is generally full by 0730, so the demand from EPP is uncharacteristically early in the peak. Debden and Loughton car parks most often have spaces at 0900 still.
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 16:59:46 GMT
Post by superteacher on Sept 20, 2014 16:59:46 GMT
I hope one lesson to be learned from WTT67 is that there need to be more reversers/trains put in service from Loughton/Debden in the AM peak, especially after 0745 to prevent gross overcrowding on the WB from stations Loughton-Snaresbrook. Epping station car park, which attracts hundreds of long-distance car commuters taking advantage of Zone 6 fares from as far away as Cambridge, is generally full by 0730, so the demand from EPP is uncharacteristically early in the peak. Debden and Loughton car parks most often have spaces at 0900 still. Epping itself has the best peak service that it's ever had mainly due to the increased demand over the past few years. However, as mentioned the trains are already packed when leaving Epping, particularly when the gap is 8 minutes from the previous train. There are Debden / Loughton push in trains, but there are stil some 8 minutes gaps to allow for trains to enter service from Grange Hill. This means that stations from Woodford westbound get a 4 minute service whereas the stations enduring an 8 min gap are east of Woodford. This situation isn't repeated in the evening peak where all trains go at least as far as Loughton. The trains starting from Grange Hill are no doubt welcome for passengers on the section between there and Woodford, but the gap they create at Debden abd Loughton far less so. |
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 17:47:05 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 17:47:05 GMT
Hehe please don't take my HAIDTG (entering service from Hainault depot via Grange Hill) trains away!!  I was actually always lead to believe that the HAIDTG starters were provided largely to get as many trains out of Hainault depot and into central London as quickly as possible. I don't think you'd be able to get 34 trains out of Hainault depot and turn all the Hainault via Newbury Park trains and keep up a decent service between Hainault and Woodford without sending a few out via Grange Hill and Woodford. It's only 7 trains we get: the 06 24, 06 48, 07 10, 07 33, 07 49, 07 58 and 08 16. Mind you, maybe it's just my own personal bias We put up with 3 tph the rest of the time! Also, anecdotally I can tell you it's a rare day indeed in which the last four of those aren't packed by the time they've reached Woodford. |
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 18:01:35 GMT
Post by will on Sept 20, 2014 18:01:35 GMT
I'm assuming this will come in next May when all night Fri and Sat running begins. What lessons will be learnt from WTT 67. From reading comments from Aslefshreugged, it seems that the current timetable is putting too much strain on the trains abd crews. From my own observations, there seems to be very few peaks where there isn't at least one train cancellation, probably due to defective stock or driver not available. I understand that 100 kph running is to return with the new timetable. Are they also going to attempt another frequency increase to get the westbound evening peak level back to 30 tph? I've also heard rumours that 33 tph will be attempted on the eastbound in the evening peak. Does this mean that 34 tph doesn't actually operate on the Central Line in the peak? |
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 18:04:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 18:04:58 GMT
It does, but only briefly. Certainly not for a whole hour and only in one direction.
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 18:10:22 GMT
Post by will on Sept 20, 2014 18:10:22 GMT
Bit cheeky of lul advertises 34 trains an hour if it isn't even for an hour On WTT 68 are they attempting to run 33tph more reliably than they manage currently and will any extra trains be required as aren't nearly all the trains in service in the peaks? |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 20, 2014 18:15:59 GMT
Apart from the 30 mins westbound morning peak slot, at no other time does the frequency exceed 30 tph.
The current timetable uses 79 trains in the peak. I doubt that this could be increased considering the somewhat poor reliability of the 1992 stock.
They could increase the service my extending the amount of time that those 79 trains are in service for.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 18:18:09 GMT
There's a maximum of 79 trains in service in the peaks - though not for very long (29 mins in the morning and 19 mins in the evening) and it's absolutely killing us.
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 18:24:46 GMT
Post by will on Sept 20, 2014 18:24:46 GMT
How will the 1992 ts cope with extra time in service and less time for maintenance during Friday and Saturday nights??
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WTT 68
Sept 20, 2014 18:35:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 18:35:56 GMT
My fifty quid's on: they won't But for the sake of fairness I should point out that the night tube is only on a few days and will only a require a relatively small number of trains. |
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WTT 68
Sept 21, 2014 7:16:08 GMT
Post by stapler on Sept 21, 2014 7:16:08 GMT
Hehe please don't take my HAIDTG (entering service from Hainault depot via Grange Hill) trains away!! I was actually always lead to believe that the HAIDTG starters were provided largely to get as many trains out of Hainault depot and into central London as quickly as possible. I don't think you'd be able to get 34 trains out of Hainault depot and turn all the Hainault via Newbury Park trains and keep up a decent service between Hainault and Woodford without sending a few out via Grange Hill and Woodford. It's only 7 trains we get: the 06 24, 06 48, 07 10, 07 33, 07 49, 07 58 and 08 16. Mind you, maybe it's just my own personal bias We put up with 3 tph the rest of the time! Also, anecdotally I can tell you it's a rare day indeed in which the last four of those aren't packed by the time they've reached Woodford. Isn't the way forward on this to substitute Woodford-central London via Hainaults for the Grange Hill starters? It obviously takes a bit longer, but it makes no sense for someone at Buckhurst Hill not to be able to get on a train... |
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WTT 68
Sept 21, 2014 8:57:29 GMT
Post by superteacher on Sept 21, 2014 8:57:29 GMT
They could, but it would mean a tighter turnaround at Woodford.
Years ago, when Woodford to Hainault was a shuttle, the service was every 8 mins or so. They used to have some Grange Hill starters, but they were much earlier, meaning that the line from Debden / Loughton didn't have the gaps.
Furthermore, the Epping line had a better peak service than the Hainault line.
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WTT 68
Sept 21, 2014 9:06:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 9:06:49 GMT
The last I heard Night Tube won't be coming in until October/November, it will be 4tph and it will be Hainault to Ealing Broadway only. There have been rumours that they might add Epping on but no mention of West Rusilip or Wood ford to Hainualt services.
The one thing they should get rid of is T026 leaves West Rusilip 16:32 arr Grange Hill via Woodford 17:50 because it confuses the hell out of passengers who think it goes via Hainault, there's always a sorry few crossing the bridge at Snaresbrook to go back westbound to Leytonstone.
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WTT 68
Sept 21, 2014 9:21:22 GMT
Post by superteacher on Sept 21, 2014 9:21:22 GMT
The last I heard Night Tube won't be coming in until October/November, it will be 4tph and it will be Hainault to Ealing Broadway only. There have been rumours that they might add Epping on but no mention of West Rusilip or Wood ford to Hainualt services. The one thing they should get rid of is T026 leaves West Rusilip 16:32 arr Grange Hill via Woodford 17:50 because it confuses the hell out of passengers who think it goes via Hainault, there's always a sorry few crossing the bridge at Snaresbrook to go back westbound to Leytonstone. I often wonder what the point of this train is. If they want to stable that train somewhere, they could run it to Debden, then empty to Loughton sidings. Or if they want an early Hainault stabler, run it via Newbury Park. However, I have little excuse for the passengers who get on it, thinking it goes via Hainault, as it clearly states that it's going via Woodford! |
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WTT 68
Sept 21, 2014 13:09:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 13:09:18 GMT
Isn't the way forward on this to substitute Woodford-central London via Hainaults for the Grange Hill starters? It obviously takes a bit longer, but it makes no sense for someone at Buckhurst Hill not to be able to get on a train... But they would still have to cross Woodford junction so I'm not really sure how that would help. Also, Woodford trains usually arrive at Roding Valley early and leave as soon as the stick goes white, whereas in my experience the Hainaults tend to be a little late in arriving - or at least they arrive after the DMI thinks they're going to. Besides, they don't generally encourage going to central London via Hainault because it's quicker to go via Woodford. That's why trains are advertised as Hainault all the way. Anyway, like I say, there's a substantial flow of trains out of Hainault depot which enter service at Hainault, plus all of the Hainault via Newbury Park trains, plus the few trains to and from Woodford to get through Hainault station. I don't think you could put all of those trains through Hainault, that's what makes a fairly compelling case for entering service at Grange Hill. The one thing they should get rid of is T026 leaves West Rusilip 16:32 arr Grange Hill via Woodford 17:50 because it confuses the hell out of passengers who think it goes via Hainault, there's always a sorry few crossing the bridge at Snaresbrook to go back westbound to Leytonstone. I often wonder what the point of this train is. If they want to stable that train somewhere, they could run it to Debden, then empty to Loughton sidings. Or if they want an early Hainault stabler, run it via Newbury Park. However, I have little excuse for the passengers who get on it, thinking it goes via Hainault, as it clearly states that it's going via Woodford! As you can imagine, I love this train I want to give it a kiss every time I get on it (which isn't very often) - I don't recommend this, though, obviously  I suppose someone at 55 Broadway thought it made best use of the railway. Anyway, I could understand the iPod-ed (although obviously it's not just people who don't pay attention and when it is, sometimes you can't really blame them) being confused by a Hainault via Woodford service. In fact, I once heard someone talking as if 'Hainault via Newbury Park' was actually the name of a station...But Grange Hill via Woodford? Mind you, the in-car line diagram may not help in this regard as it really does make it look as though you can't get to Grange Hill via Woodford. |
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WTT 68
Sept 24, 2014 7:18:31 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 7:18:31 GMT
Just checked, it seems that the service will go to Loughton and it will be at least 6tph, so I'm guessing 3tph on the branches or maybe 8tph through the pipe to Ealing Broadway and 4tph on the branches.
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WTT 68
Sept 24, 2014 7:33:24 GMT
Post by stapler on Sept 24, 2014 7:33:24 GMT
Just checked, it seems that the service will go to Loughton and it will be at least 6tph, so I'm guessing 3tph on the branches or maybe 8tph through the pipe to Ealing Broadway and 4tph on the branches. Shrugged - is this the night tube? If so, how definite do you reckon the plans are? |
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WTT 68
Sept 24, 2014 8:10:00 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2014 8:10:00 GMT
Shrugged - is this the night tube? If so, how definite do you reckon the plans are? Yes, this is Night Tube, the blurb on the TfL site says "on average there will be a train every 10 minutes or less." I doubt if they mean 6tph to both Hainault and Loughton as this would mean 12tph through the Pipe so I'm guessing that the frequency will be reduced on the branches. There are no firm details for any of this as so far management haven't approached ASLEF and RMT to discuss terms. |
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WTT 68
Sept 24, 2014 14:48:46 GMT
Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 24, 2014 14:48:46 GMT
Could be a shuttle from Leytonstone for one or other branch?
What would it be on the Northern? Would both north London branches run through to Kennington, with one reversing there and the other going to Morden? Or would one of them terminate at Euston CSLR, where it is possible to reverse to go back north?
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WTT 68
Sept 25, 2014 9:33:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:33:22 GMT
The City branch of the Northern and the Uxbridge branch of the Piccadilly aren't included in Night Tube. I suppose that the Central could have a shuttle service to Loughton but I'd question the wisdom of expecting drunken passengers to navigate their way from Platform 3 to Platform 2 all through the night.
As a side note under the curreent plans Leytonstone will go from 4 SS2s, 3 SAMFs and 5 full time CSAs to 5 CSS2s and 2 part time CSA1s with a mobile CSM2 covering the five stations between Woodford and Leyton. Unless there are going to be major changes there will only be one member of staff on duty for most of the night.
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WTT 68
Sept 25, 2014 9:41:19 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2014 9:41:19 GMT
As a side note under the curreent plans Leytonstone will go from 4 SS2s, 3 SAMFs and 5 full time CSAs to 5 CSS2s and 2 part time CSA1s with a mobile CSM2 covering the five stations between Woodford and Leyton. Unless there are going to be major changes there will only be one member of staff on duty for most of the night night. I literally cannot see a flaw in that plan... |
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I suppose someone at 55 Broadway thought it made best use of the railway.
