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Post by plasmid on May 28, 2014 22:27:14 GMT
Whilst boarding my usual train on the morning of the 19th May 2014 the T/Op announced we wouldn't be the first train to leave and that they were running a new timetable. Any news on what changes the new timetable has included or taken away?
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 29, 2014 5:52:53 GMT
"From Sunday 18 May Service levels have been increased across most time periods Late evening services have been improved to cater for events traffic. M-F Early EB trains have been improved to provide a 5min service by 0600 at Waterloo. An additional 58th train has been provided for service in the peaks from Stratford Depot, together with running time changes this has allowed the periods of 30tph to be increased to 90mins EB, 60mins WB in the morning peak and 90mins in both directions in the evening peak. Inter-peak services have been increased to 24tph in the Central area. SAT: The 24tph service has been revised to commence earlier at 0800 and run later until approximately 2300. SUN: The 24tph service has been revised to commence earlier at 0830 and extended beyond 2000 until approximately 2300. Between 1000-2000 train services have been increased to 24tph in the Central area.
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Post by kesmet on May 29, 2014 7:44:09 GMT
" SUN: The 24tph service has been revised to commence earlier at 0830 and extended beyond 2000 until approximately 2300. Between 1000-2000 train services have been increased to 24tph in the Central area.That first 24tph should be a 20tph, right? That is, a 20tph service from 0830 to ~2300, increasing to 24tph between 1000 and 2000. (At least according to WTT 13 for the Jubilee line from www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/working-timetables).
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Post by londonstuff on May 29, 2014 8:17:05 GMT
30tph just doesn't sound that impressive seeing as it's a straight end-to-end like with no branches. The TBTC took forever to put in and it's got three terminating platforms at either end, unlike the Vic (albeit with no overrun space). There's also plenty of spare capacity at the northern end of the line, so I suppose the question is what gives?
Why 33 and looking at 34tph during the peaks on the Vic which is under all the pressure in the world with sheer passenger numbers and being a short, very intense service and not the Jub? I know someone mentioned here the other day that Stratford wasn't the most helpful terminating layout but it surely can't all be down to that.
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Post by Harsig on May 29, 2014 8:32:18 GMT
30tph just doesn't sound that impressive seeing as it's a straight end-to-end like with no branches. The TBTC took forever to put in and it's got three terminating platforms at either end, unlike the Vic (albeit with no overrun space). There's also plenty of spare capacity at the northern end of the line, so I suppose the question is what gives? Why 33 and looking at 34tph during the peaks on the Vic which is under all the pressure in the world with sheer passenger numbers and being a short, very intense service and not the Jub? I know someone mentioned here the other day that Stratford wasn't the most helpful terminating layout but it surely can't all be down to that. It could simply be that the Jubilee Line does not have enough trains to run a more intensive service on a regular basis. This timetable requires 58 trains in the peaks out of a total fleet of 63 trains. That is pretty close to, if not actually at, the limit of reliable availability for a fleet of that size.
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Post by superteacher on May 29, 2014 9:20:44 GMT
I'm sure the aim was to run 33 tph on the Jubilee, so they must have ordered the correct number of trains in order to provide that level of service.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2014 15:23:37 GMT
I too am a little underwhelmed. Surely this level could be achieved with "legacy signalling."
Of course, that might in itself be a slightly silly thing to say because it might be that the Jubilee would have needed resignalling to manage that and that the signalling which was in place could not reliably achieve 33 or even 30 tph without extensive work and would be the point of putting in loads of old-fashioned signals, at least from the point of view of TfL. But I can't help but wonder whether all the pain was worth it and now, of course, we have a relatively isolated Jubilee line which means the Met can't really run on it anymore. Not that that was done very often but all the same, I would've wanted more for my money if I were TfL and it makes me wonder whether it was all necessary.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 29, 2014 15:57:26 GMT
That first 24tph should be a 20tph, right? Yes, 24tph should read 20tph in this instance. My error in trying to give a full and detailed answer, my apologies.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on May 30, 2014 5:31:16 GMT
30tph just doesn't sound that impressive seeing as it's a straight end-to-end like with no branches. The TBTC took forever to put in and it's got three terminating platforms at either end, unlike the Vic (albeit with no overrun space). There's also plenty of spare capacity at the northern end of the line, so I suppose the question is what gives? Why 33 and looking at 34tph during the peaks on the Vic which is under all the pressure in the world with sheer passenger numbers and being a short, very intense service and not the Jub? I know someone mentioned here the other day that Stratford wasn't the most helpful terminating layout but it surely can't all be down to that. It could simply be that the Jubilee Line does not have enough trains to run a more intensive service on a regular basis. This timetable requires 58 trains in the peaks out of a total fleet of 63 trains. That is pretty close to, if not actually at, the limit of reliable availability for a fleet of that size. According to documentation I have seen, the main constraints are insufficient trains, and also the whole detrainment issue at the various reversing sidings which since the Liverpool Street incident has still never quite been fully resolved. A more frequent service through the central section could be achieved if more trains terminated short, but in practice it's unrealistic for Wembley Park and Willesden Green to reliably handle more than 6 tph each, which for a 30 tph service still means 18 tph through to Stanmore. There is the option to regularly use West Hampstead, however it is preferred to leave this unused in order to facilitiate use for service recovery when required. One longer term plan under consideration is to run to Harrow-on-the-Hill, but this doesn't resolve the immediate issue of insufficient trains. It has crossed my mind whether a cheaper solution could end up being remodelling Wembley Park so the Jubilee takes over platforms 2 & 5 in order to provide a reversing facility. With the current service patterns on the Met this could be achieved, although at a cost of losing flexibility on the Met side. Having said all this, whether the TBTC system could reliably cope with over 30 tph is another issue. Based on experience on the Northern Line, throughput of trains through more complex layouts is not always particularly impressive. It will be interesting to see how the Northern Line performs with its two upcoming new timetables.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 9:59:18 GMT
I'm sure the aim was to run 33 tph on the Jubilee, so they must have ordered the correct number of trains in order to provide that level of service. The original aim of the JLE was 36tph. However, this was maximum capacity which wasn't expected to be required for some time.
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Post by plasmid on Jun 1, 2014 23:34:20 GMT
" From Sunday 18 May Service levels have been increased across most time periods Late evening services have been improved to cater for events traffic. M-F Early EB trains have been improved to provide a 5min service by 0600 at Waterloo. An additional 58th train has been provided for service in the peaks from Stratford Depot, together with running time changes this has allowed the periods of 30tph to be increased to 90mins EB, 60mins WB in the morning peak and 90mins in both directions in the evening peak. Inter-peak services have been increased to 24tph in the Central area. SAT: The 24tph service has been revised to commence earlier at 0800 and run later until approximately 2300. SUN: The 24tph service has been revised to commence earlier at 0830 and extended beyond 2000 until approximately 2300. Between 1000-2000 train services have been increased to 24tph in the Central area.Thank you.
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Post by edwin on Jun 21, 2014 16:19:26 GMT
It could simply be that the Jubilee Line does not have enough trains to run a more intensive service on a regular basis. This timetable requires 58 trains in the peaks out of a total fleet of 63 trains. That is pretty close to, if not actually at, the limit of reliable availability for a fleet of that size. According to documentation I have seen, the main constraints are insufficient trains, and also the whole detrainment issue at the various reversing sidings which since the Liverpool Street incident has still never quite been fully resolved. Why not? it seems preposterous! Why can't Tfl just flash the lights on and off before detraining, and when going into the reversing siding have an announcement like "the train will re-enter service shortly, please remain in the carriage and do not attempt to switch carriages" or something...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 8:44:51 GMT
Having said all this, whether the TBTC system could reliably cope with over 30 tph is another issue. Based on experience on the Northern Line, throughput of trains through more complex layouts is not always particularly impressive. It will be interesting to see how the Northern Line performs with its two upcoming new timetables. Well, WTT 54 on the northern has introduced a 6 minute time saving, 1hr9 minutes mon-fri HBT to MOR via bank which is kinda pathetic as that's what WTT53 had as the runtime on a sat / sun anyway
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Post by superteacher on Jul 30, 2014 19:38:38 GMT
There is the potential to save more running time. The ATO is quite pedestrian in places. Maybe this will be addressed in WTT 55?
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