Buying NR tickets from LU ticket offices

Thanks for your response. In this case the station is in the former category - as Highbury and Islington is a National Rail station as well as LU. However, unlike Finsbury Park for example, there's no National Rail ticket machine or National Rail ticket office.

The LU ticket office could sell me a National Rail ticket (based on off-peak), but not the ticket that I wanted (based on super off-peak).

The ticket clerk had to look at a ring-binder folder of fares, and didn't seem to be able to consult any computerised system. Maybe his ring binder didn't have all fares listed - but presumably it should be comprehensive.

Maybe this just isn't an issue that comes up often!

Thank you for the information. I hoped this would be the case, but I gave up insisting on the cheaper ticket after 5 minutes because:

(a) a large queue had formed behind me,
(b) I decided I couldn't do any more to change the ticket clerk's mind - he wasn't going to give me the ticket I wanted! (I had a similar situation at Walthamstow Central once where the ticket clerk insisted there was no way to register my Gold Card discount on my Oyster Card, and I couldn't say anything to change his mind), and
(c) I wasn't sure I was definitely in the right at the time.

On the positive side, TfL promptly offered to refund the difference via a voucher in the post (I've found their central customer service team to be very good). However, they didn't confirm whether or not the ticket clerk made a mistake, or whether their systems meant it's impossible to buy the correct ticket. I think you've clarified that it's likely that it was a mistake by the clerk, and that I should try asking for the correct ticket again next time.

Thanks

The fare quoted (before discounts) was £11.20, which is off-peak day return. The super off-peak is £8. This was on a Sunday, so I must have definitely been given the wrong information by the clerk.

On another note, I think it's impossible to buy this ticket from a LU ticket machine, so I'm not sure what you can do if the ticket office is closed (although the ticket office being open didn't help in my case!).

I regularly use Harrow on the Hill when I'm going beyond Amersham, and there's no problem getting the Network Railcard discount when the ticket office is open. The problem comes when it's closed, as it was a few Sundays ago when I needed to get to Wendover at 0900 - all the staff on duty could suggest was to buy my ticket at Wendover, and they let me through the barrier.

Why can't Network Railcard be added to the discounts available from the self-service machines? I know at one time it was under threat of withdrawal, but I think the threat was lifted some time ago.

Ironically TfL plan to close that and another 260+ ticket offices lol!

I asked TfL customer services if they will change the ticket machines before closing ticket offices. They said they do plan on doing this, including adding the feature to buy boundary zone extensions tickets. I'd hope this would also include the ability to apply Network / Gold Card discounts too, so hopefully you may have an easier ticketing experience soon!

I'd prefer for the ticket offices to stay open, but unfortunately the reality seems to be that I will get a better ticketing buying experience in the future when they upgrade the ticket machines and close the ticket offices. If this is done correctly, then ticket machines will then be able to sell me the full range of tickets that I want - something the ticket clerk was unable to do. Obviously they could keep the ticket offices open and upgrade the machines, but that's another matter not for this thread!

Is this a restriction that TfL ticket offices impose rather than a National Rail restriction? As far as I understand there's no restriction like this when using Gold Cards on the NR network - the NR website states that when buying Gold Card discounted tickets for other people "Gold Card holders do not need to purchase a ticket for themselves if the journey to be undertaken is covered by their Season ticket."



My annual travelcard is only Z1-3. I wanted to buy a return ticket for the other person, but I was told I couldn't do that and I needed to buy a Z1-6 discounted travelcard for them instead plus an extension ticket. I was sold the travelcard without buying one myself.



This could be why the ticket clerk couldn't sell me the super off-peak fare?



I didn't realise this. I looked at the machines but couldn't find the option (the Southern and FCC machines have a "buy tickets from another station option". Would this allow me to apply the Gold Card discount too?



My wording would have been along the lines of "one super off peak day return from boundary of zone 3 and one super off peak day return from Highbury and Islington"



I can see the difficulties and complications of the current ticketing system, and can sympathise with station staff who have to sell the tickets!

I've searched for any clear wording on this issue on the National Rail website, but it's not definitively set out. However, my logic is that I've already paid for part of my journey (up to the boundary of zone 3), so it doesn't seem right that I'd have to pay for it again.

I would have thought I could buy my own extension ticket separately from purchasing my companion's ticket if I chose - I can't see any restriction anywhere that says a discounted ticket can only be sold if the Gold Card holder is sold the same ticket (assuming the journey is not covered by my travelcard).

In this scenario, travelling from H&I to Hatfield, if I succeeded in buying an extension ticket for myself and a discounted return ticket for my companion, I can't see that either I or my companion would be doing anything wrong:

1 - My companion wouldn't be contravening restrictions as they just need to ensure that they are travelling with the Gold Card holder at all times, and that the Gold Card can be produced when required.

2 - I wouldn't contravening restrictions as I've got a valid ticket (travelcard then extension) for my journey.

The restrictions do say "Gold Card holders do not need to purchase a ticket for themselves if the journey to be undertaken is covered by the Season ticket route validity of their Annual Gold Card/Annual Gold Card Travelcard.". However, that just clarifies that I don't need a ticket if I'm within my travelcard zones (or my route if I had non-travelcard season ticket). I wouldn't be within my travelcard zones in this case, so I would buy an extension ticket, but the wording doesn't say I need to buy the same ticket as my companion.

The closest wording that could imply I'm to buy the same ticket as my companion is the restriction that "The Gold Card holder may be accompanied by up to three other adults at the same discounted fare each, and up to four children at the prevailing flat fare each.". However, I take "at the same discounted fare each" to refer to the same fare as each other - i.e. all three adults need the same discounted fare as each other, not the same discounted fare I'm getting. This interpretation makes sense to me, as this wording applies whether or not the journey is within my travelcard area (or my route if I had non-travelcard season ticket), i.e. whether or not I have to buy a ticket.

But I admit it's not clear!

On a separate note I noticed the restrictions say "Holders of Annual Gold Card Travelcards which are NOT valid for travel in Fare Zones 1-6 inclusive, and who are - a) purchasing discounted Off Peak Day Travelcards for accompanying adults or children and b) intending to travel in a Fare Zone (or Zones) NOT covered by their Travelcard season ticket, must also purchase a discounted Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard for themselves."

Which means that if I was undertaking a totally different journey, within z1-3, then I'm allowed to purchase a discounted off-peak z1-6 travelcard for my companion. However, if I'm intending to travel to zone 4 or beyond, then I must buy a z1-6 travelcard too. It seems very complicated and odd, and difficult for the ticket clerk!