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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2013 23:07:48 GMT
I couldn't believe what I witnessed at Westminster at couple of days ago. A party of school children (perhaps agreed 6-7 years old) were boarding a northbound train. There were about 36 of them boarding through two doors into the same car. About three-quarters though their boarding the driver simply closed the doors trapping one child between the PEDs and the train door. Absolutely incredible. Luckily another child was trapped in the train door and the driver had to re-open the doors after about a 5-7 second delay.
There is absolutely no way that this driver could have been paying attention to the CCTV and they acted in a criminally dangerous manner.
A similar incident also happened at Canada Water on the same train on the same journey, albeit it had a far less serious consequence. A mother had exited with her buggy and was being following, in close succession, by 3 or 4 other people when suddenly the driver closed the doors but by some fortune the doors closed in front of some people wanting to exit. Luckily the platform staff saw them banging on the doors and the driver eventually re-opened the doors.
How can this happen?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 17, 2013 23:24:49 GMT
Without commenting on the specifics (as I don't know), if you see any staff member taking any action that you think might be dangerous or otherwise unprofessional you should make a note of the time, location and any details of the staff member concerned (gender, build, height, facial hair, etc if you don't know their name). At the first opportunity you should make a formal complaint to TfL (you can do this via the website) giving as much detail as you can, which will be investigated and appropriate action taken once all the facts are established.
The corollary of this is that if you encounter any staff member going above and beyond, or doing that little bit more to be helpful, then you should use the very similar system on the website to record a formal expression of thanks/praise, which will be fed back to the staff member concerned (and I think their manager). Everybody likes it when their efforts are appreciated.
Comments about either situation in venues like this may get noticed by the relevant people or someone who can pass the message on to them, but there is no guarantee of this nor how timely it will be if it does happen.
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Post by londonstuff on Oct 19, 2013 6:29:27 GMT
Mod Comment The forum staff have reviewed this thread. ChrisM's advice is sound: if anyone feels that they witness anything dangerous they should report it, with as much detail as possible, so that the 'incident' can be reported.
If continuing to contribute to this thread, as always, try to keep away from guesses and supposition - maybe a member of staff's point of view here might be appropriate?
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Oct 19, 2013 10:55:29 GMT
I seem to recall reading, although may be incorrect, that all platforms with PEDs need to have a member of staff with a handheld emergency open (and presumably emergency close) control for them. Please could somebody say if this is the case?
If so, I wonder about the efficacy of giving said member of staff a whistle, or even transferring the responsibility for safe dispatch to them, NR-style. With extremely busy platforms it might better to have on the platform a pair of eyes rather than a set of cameras.
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 19, 2013 12:14:02 GMT
if a child is trapped between the train and the PED neither a pair of eyes or a camera will be able to see them.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 19, 2013 16:03:28 GMT
Surely that can't be true - the PEDs are glass?
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Oct 19, 2013 16:21:48 GMT
Somebody trapped between the train and the PED can be easily seen from the front, but given that the doors get in the way, they might be easy to miss at the angle from which a dispatcher (or OPO camera) would be looking.
How frequent are these incidents? It might be possible and worthwhile to have an automatic system confirming that there is nothing untoward in "the gap" (perhaps an infrared beam used in a similar manner to the one in a supermarket checkout conveyor belt), and interlock this with the signalling system. Of course the current system might well be sufficient - I'm not aware of any incidents to date where a train has moved off with someone stuck between the PED and the train.
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 19, 2013 16:59:21 GMT
Surely that can't be true - the PEDs are glass? whilst the doors/walls are glass they are in frames.
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Post by metrailway on Oct 19, 2013 19:21:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2013 20:10:16 GMT
This number is fairly useless on its own - it should be compared to average number of incidents on a non-PED station with similar number of passengers.
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Post by rsdworker on Oct 20, 2013 1:02:13 GMT
i think PEDs should fitted with sensors - i had seen nearly accident on Copenhagen metro we was boarding already crowded train - at sudden the peds and train doors closed on me but we was on platform side - poor man fell back after doors striked him - that's why PEDS needs a sensors - if person detected when doors are closing then doors won't close till after person has cleared the doors
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2013 17:13:01 GMT
if a child is trapped between the train and the PED neither a pair of eyes or a camera will be able to see them. Perhaps, but the o/p said "about three quarters through their boarding". This indicates there would have been a residual queue of kids on the platform making their way on. If CCTV can't pick that up, then something is seriously wrong. I think logic would dictate that if you close the doors when you see queue of people on their way onto the train, someone is likely to get trapped if the doors are closed. Naturally this happens when someone decides to chance it and tries to board as the doors are closing. This is just as infuriating for other passengers as well as staff. but this doesn't seem to be a group of kids chancing it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 20:17:42 GMT
I was thinking did anyone have any mobile phone camera footage taken that day??, that might help to assist in resolving the issues.
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Post by jamesb on Dec 10, 2013 18:33:33 GMT
Two points that came to my mind.
1. There were emergency stop plungers installed but never commissioned on the platforms. Perhaps this would be a situation where where they would be useful.
2. There is an emergency release handle on the inside of of the ped... is that there for this sutuation? Assuming you haven't fallen down the gap.
Also a passenger inside the train should operate the alarm. Once they've found it, moved the person leaning on it out the way and pulled the handle.
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Post by rsdworker on Dec 10, 2013 20:53:16 GMT
2. There is an emergency release handle on the inside of of the ped... is that there for this sutuation? Assuming you haven't fallen down the gap. that is for doors - if person trapped behind the doors - he could used emergency release to open doors from inside
for 1 - i believe should installed on jubbiee line
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 10, 2013 22:50:52 GMT
The release handle on the inside of the PEDs is for any situation in which the train doors open and at PED doesn't. I have had to use it one one occasion (Westminster westbound iirc). Like any technology they are not 100% reliable.
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