|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 4, 2014 20:22:07 GMT
The easiest way to tell the difference was that C stock had pairs of doors and D stock single doors. Hard to tell when they're open though!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 20:22:32 GMT
I always thought it was a waste to replace satisfactory D stock, whilst money could have been better spent on replacing the crumbling 1972 Bakerloo Trains instead! There's quite a good london reconnections article here, which talks about the replacement of the 1972TS among other things. Worth a read I think (the bit about the 72s in particular is under the 'Bakerloo line' sub-heading). Nevertheless, I do think the Ds are great trains with plenty of life left in them, but I'm sure you don't need me to bore you with the obvious advantages of interchangeable stock on the entire SSR, plus the need for resignalling on the District and the real need for a common signalling system SSR-wide which makes replacing the District line stock now (rather than having to retrofit the system to the Ds) pretty sensible. Not that I'm necessarily sold on the need for ATO, but there was gonna come a time when something would have to be done about SSR signalling and since a massive revamp of "legacy signalling" would be very unfashionable, some kind of ATP/ATO was bound to come along and it makes sense to bring in modern trains to go with the modern signalling. It's just a shame the Ds can't be cascaded somewhere but no other LU line can take sub-surface stock and the pipedreams about selling them to other railways have all fallen through.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 4, 2014 20:52:34 GMT
Yes, District Line passengers using the Wimbledon branch towards Earls Court will soon learn to do what passengers (on all the other multi-branch Underground lines with trains that look the same) do when confronted with a destination split on their journey in order to arrive at the correct destination! What's that? Get it wrong, end up in the wrong place and have to double-back? You're probably right tut! There appears to be a far greater number of "the sober but hopelessly bewildered" than there was in my day using the underground, although this could be a result of easy access to social media on which to whinge about their inability to look before they leap. They usually only make a dog's breakfast of it a couple of times though, the first occasion not being a sufficient lesson of course as it's bound to be somebody else's fault. Once the headphones are off and they stop walking along staring at a phone for long enough to actually read the describers on train and platform or listen to the announcements, everything is OK again.
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 4, 2014 21:08:51 GMT
Hahahahahaha. Maybe in Lincolnshire, not in London!
|
|
|
Post by Hassaan on Jun 4, 2014 21:23:10 GMT
What's that? Get it wrong, end up in the wrong place and have to double-back? You're probably right tut! There appears to be a far greater number of "the sober but hopelessly bewildered" than there was in my day using the underground, although this could be a result of easy access to social media on which to whinge about their inability to look before they leap. They usually only make a dog's breakfast of it a couple of times though, the first occasion not being a sufficient lesson of course as it's bound to be somebody else's fault. Once the headphones are off and they stop walking along staring at a phone for long enough to actually read the describers on train and platform or listen to the announcements, everything is OK again. We all know having a moan against the railways is what social media is actually for, don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Its always the railways fault, never the passenger customer
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 21:31:52 GMT
You're probably right tut! There appears to be a far greater number of "the sober but hopelessly bewildered" than there was in my day using the underground, although this could be a result of easy access to social media on which to whinge about their inability to look before they leap. They usually only make a dog's breakfast of it a couple of times though, the first occasion not being a sufficient lesson of course as it's bound to be somebody else's fault. Once the headphones are off and they stop walking along staring at a phone for long enough to actually read the describers on train and platform or listen to the announcements, everything is OK again. We all know having a moan against the railways is what social media is actually for, don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Its always the railways fault, never the passenger customer I thought that was what the Evening Standard was for? My understanding was that social media allowed people who like to moan about the railways to connect with each other, but I was under the impression that it was the Standard that was the platform Nowadays, of course, with the moaners connected it makes sense that a fair amount of moaning will take place on social media, but the Standard is not dead yet
|
|
|
Post by malcolmffc on Jun 4, 2014 22:04:34 GMT
I always thought it was a waste to replace satisfactory D stock, whilst money could have been better spent on replacing the crumbling 1972 Bakerloo Trains instead! They aren't satisfactory at all. They're 35 year old technology with small doors.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 4, 2014 22:55:44 GMT
I always thought it was a waste to replace satisfactory D stock, whilst money could have been better spent on replacing the crumbling 1972 Bakerloo Trains instead! They aren't satisfactory at all. They're 35 year old technology with small doors. Unless your statement has also appeared in The Evening Standard I'm sorry to say it's totally inadmissible as moaning material.
|
|
|
Post by whistlekiller2000 on Jun 4, 2014 22:59:43 GMT
Hahahahahaha. Maybe in Lincolnshire, not in London! When I regularly used the Central line (1973 to 1986) a lot of the platform describers were faulty. At least in those days it was possible to read the train destination blinds in bright sunlight!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 23:16:34 GMT
Hahahahahaha. Maybe in Lincolnshire, not in London! When I regularly used the Central line (1973 to 1986) a lot of the platform describers were faulty. At least in those days it was possible to read the train destination blinds in bright sunlight! These days you don't even need bright sunlight to make 'em illegible, some of them are so filthy. Sonia is often silent as well. Heaven only knows where some trains are going
|
|
|
Post by wimblephil on Jun 5, 2014 7:32:03 GMT
I always thought it was a waste to replace satisfactory D stock, whilst money could have been better spent on replacing the crumbling 1972 Bakerloo Trains instead! They aren't satisfactory at all. They're 35 year old technology with small doors. Well I guess that's a matter of opinion! I for one will be sad when their time comes. There's something about the D-Stock I find rather comforting! Although the fact that they're my regular ride probably means I am biased somewhat...! I hope it's a long time before this thread starts to beef out!
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 5, 2014 8:58:23 GMT
They aren't satisfactory at all. They're 35 year old technology with small doors. D Stock have 4 equal doors of 1127mm per-car 1127 x 4 doors = 4508 x 6 cars = 27048mm per-train (24 doors) S7 Stock have 3 doors per car. 19 doors at 1600mm each, and 2 narrower 1200mm doors (first behind cab). 1600 x 19 doors = 30400mm + 2 x 1200 = 32800mm per-train (21 doors) Difference of 5752mm per-train. I rest my case M'lud! (ooops, I'm supposed to be defending D Stock!! Case withdrawn)
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 5, 2014 11:09:05 GMT
They aren't satisfactory at all. They're 35 year old technology with small doors. D Stock have 4 equal doors of 1127mm per-car S7 Stock have 3 doors per car. 19 doors at 1600mm each, and 2 narrower 1200mm doors (first behind cab). Difference of 5752mm per-train. Unfortunately, the rate at which people can board is not directly proportional to the total aperture - otherwise 100 doors each 32cm wide would be as good as twenty doors 1600mm wide, or just two big doors, one in each DM, each taking up the full length of one car! People's width at the shoulder is actually remarkably uniform compared with other dimesnions, so provided the double doors on an S stock are just about wide enough for two people to use at once, then evidently the single doors on D and S stock are not, and the fact that one is 70% of the width of the S7 double doors and the other is 75% is academic. (It would make little difference if it was 55%, or 90%, of the width required for two people to pass at once - you don't get fractional passengers. Thus the number of people who can board or alight an S7 simultaneously is 40, and for a D stock just 24. (If two people can get their sylph-like forms through a D stock door at once, you can get three through a double S stock door!) Evenly-spaced doors are also important: the two-huge-doors scenario would not be a good idea as people in the other cars would have an awfully long way to go to get out, and people would tend to crowd at whichever part of the platform the doors line up with.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 13:28:23 GMT
Hi all
I can not believe that they are going to scrap a modern underground unit like the D78 stock. What is so special about 7008 it look like any other one in the fleet.
|
|
|
Post by domh245 on Jun 5, 2014 13:37:56 GMT
set 7008 was the prototype refurbishment, back in the late 90s i believe. That was just an exterior refurbishment for the most part, but car 17008 got a new interior, which whilst similar to the production refurbishments, has some differences. For example, the lighting, arm rests, and the poles around the doors
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 5, 2014 14:24:42 GMT
I can not believe that they are going to scrap a modern underground unit like the D78 stock. What is so special about 7008 it look like any other one in the fleet. They're not really that modern - very little rolling stock on NR or LU is older now and much of that has replacements on order (Govia plans to replace the FCC class 313 fleet, and Overground has already ousted them: Crossrail's 345s should see off most of the 315s, Merseyrail is looking at replacing the 507s and 508s). And they were built down to a fairly basic specification. 7008, or rather the trailer car in the set, 17008, was a prototype for refurbishment and differs in some respects from the rest of the fleet. As mentioned upthread, there are various non-standard fittings which might be difficult to replace should the need arise. Thus a minor fault on 17008 might require special components to be ordered, which can't be sourced by component recovery from another unit. Therefore the criterion for "beyond economic repair" is much lower for that particular car.
|
|