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Post by superteacher on Sept 19, 2013 21:42:09 GMT
Some odd suspensions this weekend. For example, city branch is suspended north of Angel. Trains cannot reverse at Angel, so are they doing some form of TBTC testing with trains running empty over the "suspended" sections?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2013 22:12:04 GMT
Spot on. Got it in one.
Along with replacement buses over the affected sections.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 20, 2013 22:48:45 GMT
Cheers. I'm wondering what the trains will show on their destination indicators, as they can't show places such as Angel and Chalk Farm. I'll probably go into town to have a look for myself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2013 22:56:02 GMT
I am led to believe they will have paper destination stickers in (probably) the centre cab window, judging by a 'posed' photo I saw earlier - one they prepared earlier!!
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Post by superteacher on Sept 21, 2013 20:11:12 GMT
I am led to believe they will have paper destination stickers in (probably) the centre cab window, judging by a 'posed' photo I saw earlier - one they prepared earlier!! Yes, I can confirm that this was the case, although I doubt that the average punter even noticed them. It was especially confusing since the trains were displaying their ultimate destination on the dot matrix indicators! Tney did, however, have the DVA's switched off, but the the in car displays were working. Furthermore, the platform DMI's were showing the trains actual destination. I travelled to Angel on a couple of trains, and some people were very reluctant to detrain, saying that "the train's showing High Barnet, so why is it terminating here?" A few years ago, the policy during engineering work was for the train to display a destination at the end of the line so as to encourage all passengers to get on the train and thus be taken to the point where the service becomes suspended and the replacement buses begin. The policy back then was to run replacement buses over the whole section of the suspension. So in essence, today was a bit of a throw back to the old days, although of course technically, the service wasn't actually suspended in the strictest sense of the word! Perhaps it's just as well that the average passenger wasn't aware that their train which said High Barnet and from which they were prised off at Angel, really DID go to High Barnet . . .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2013 19:42:56 GMT
Yes the trains were running empty through the NMA3 area. The only alternative to detraining would have been to take a far bigger closure area (Golders / East Finchley to Stockwell) to reverse the NMA3 trains inconveniencing far more customers (I'm fairly sure most would prefer more train service than more information if a choice has to be made). Even then we wouldn't have got close to the timetabled frequencies that we were actually able to run. As you say earlier the detrainment points don't exist on the old northern line system and even if they did we would end up with trains not routed properly and no test of what the DMIs would show on day 1 of live running. A decision was made to leave the DMIs on in order to provide train arrival predictions; the alternative to this would have been to turn off every VID across the line leading probably to complaints about lack of information.
There was no perfect solution to what we needed to do and we recognise that customers could have been confused. On the plus side the weekend has been a huge success as far as proving TBTC through Camden with almost no issues and means TBTC will be introduced for this section very soon.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 22, 2013 21:41:24 GMT
Perhaps a better alternative would have been to cover the platform dmi, or add a scrolling message "system under test, please ask a member of staff for information".
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Post by superteacher on Sept 22, 2013 21:57:36 GMT
Perhaps a better alternative would have been to cover the platform dmi, or add a scrolling message "system under test, please ask a member of staff for information". Some of the newer style DMI's were showing a message stating that it was showing incorrect destinations due to testing of a new signalling system. Perhaps there is something to be said for adopting the train description system on the D and 1973 stock, which allows virtually any destination to be displayed. On the other hand, closures of the type that happened on the Northern this weekend are very rare, so is it really worth having the ability to show any destination?
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Post by malcolmffc on Sept 23, 2013 23:09:33 GMT
What is NMA3? And what are the other sections?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 24, 2013 3:50:38 GMT
What is NMA3? And what are the other sections? Northern Migration Area. NMA 1: High Barnet – West Finchley NMA 2: Highgate – West Finchley/Mill Hill East NMA 3: Highgate – Euston/Angel NMA 4: Euston/Angel – Stockwell NMA 5: Stockwell - Morden NMA 6: Edgware – Belsize Park
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Post by malcolmffc on Sept 24, 2013 7:17:05 GMT
Thanks.
What about the Belsize Park - Euston section? Is that part of NMA3 also?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2013 7:51:32 GMT
Thanks. What about the Belsize Park - Euston section? Is that part of NMA3 also? Yes it is.
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Post by malcolmffc on Sept 24, 2013 20:34:11 GMT
OK thanks. And the numbers refer to the order in which TBTC is planned to be implemented?
Presumably NMA5 is the crunch, given that interacts with the depot?
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Post by domh245 on Sept 24, 2013 20:47:18 GMT
Personally, I would have said that Camden Town and Kennington are the big crunch points. The depot will be unwired, so that the trains drive in manual as far as the depot limits and then switch into auto to carry on their journey.
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North End
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Post by North End on Sept 25, 2013 11:37:51 GMT
Personally, I would have said that Camden Town and Kennington are the big crunch points. The depot will be unwired, so that the trains drive in manual as far as the depot limits and then switch into auto to carry on their journey. All the areas have challenges in their own right. Camden is not complex as far as the signalling goes, although the layout is a spider's web when drawn on paper as a whole, one must remember that 'Camden' is actually three distinct areas - Camden Town Northbound, Camden Town Southbound, and Mornington Crescent. Once you draw it out in these three areas, the layout suddenly appears very simple. For TBTC, Finchley Central has proved to be the most problematic area so far. Golders Green is reputed to be the most problematic on the line. Regarding last weekend, the original desire was to enter passenger service at some time during the Sunday and then remain with Seltrac signalling through the NMA3 area. However basically a small amount of paperwork wasn't completed on time, therefore the system couldn't be "signed off" for passenger use. Once this is complete (which may already be so), then my understanding is the system will be ready to enter service on this section at short notice, it's just a case of finding a suitable date for the necessary resources to be put in to place. One final point, this is a bit of a grey area, but 'NMA' I believe actually stands for NEW Migration Area. On the original Tube Lines plans the first section to go over was intended to be Morden - Stockwell. Indeed this was the very first section of the Northern Line to see TBTC equipment installed trackside. The NMA designation came in when LUL took over the project management and completely revised the programme in order to reduce the number of weekend closures required. Part of the plan was the roll-out was changed to start with the less risky High Barnet section, hence it became the 'New' migration area.
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Post by superteacher on Oct 30, 2013 22:04:52 GMT
Interesting article in Underground News regarding the service suspensions last month, with pictures of the temporary destination stickers for those who didn't get to see them first hand. Whilst reading the explanation, it seemed to ring very familiar all of a sudden. Then I realised that it was a copy of my post in this thread from 21/09/13! Honestly Mr. Hardy, I don't mind! I've been meaning to contribute to UN for a while now, but I've been saved the trouble!
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