|
Post by Geoffram on Aug 10, 2013 14:02:50 GMT
In a thread on the Piccadilly Line board, Sladen shows in his Open Street Map the trajectory of the present Piccadilly line. Like others built at the turn of the 20th Century, the GNP & BR slavishly followed the street pattern of the roads above, as is witnessed by the twists and turns the line now has to make between the old Brompton Road station and South Kensington. Yet, when we get to Russell Square, as Sladen demonstrates, the line branches off in a north-easterley direction to take the most direct line between Russell Square and King's Cross unaffected by the road pattern above. Ordnance Survey maps from the period show the road pattern not to be very different from that of today. Does anybody know what the thinking was here as opposed to the rest of the line? Furthermore, was the policy of keeping within the street pattern actually abandoned or just thought not to be necessary? The Northern Line extensions to Morden and to East Finchley in the 1920s and 1930s and the Piccadilly to Arnos Grove in the 1930s all still seem to run beneath the main roads. It's not until the late 1930s when the Central Line extension was planned (although not opened until after the war) were the planners able to have the freedom of routing to serve Bethnal Green and then turning south-east to interchange with the District at Mile End and then north-east to interchange with the British Railways line at Stratford.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 20:55:22 GMT
Hello Geoffram, the earlier query regarding curvature of the Piccadilly Line at Russell Square:
is because this Great Northern & Strand section between Holborn—Russell Square—King's Cross still needs some refinement and re-surveying for OpenStreetMap. I have not ordered Parliamentary Archive maps for this section, but will probably obtain that, if it's not possible to confirm the actual routeing with the usual research and surveying. Note that Bartholomew's 1908 map (out-of-copyright if you have a copy) does show the route up Marchmont Street and then under the street pattern:
I tend to take most things with a pinch-of-salt until they've been dual-sourced or matched to a direct survey.
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Aug 13, 2013 19:04:10 GMT
The precise timing of the plans may be a key issue. I seem to recall a key legal case involving Selfridges and the Central London Railway concerning the rights of statutory undertakers (a railway, for example) to place - or not - their equipment under buildings; if it's the case I think it is, that would have led to a rethink as to whether or not to follow the streets, although I'd not hitherto reflected on the impact of the case on the tube.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2013 20:57:56 GMT
Geoffram: I didn't yet find grahamhewett's reference to Selfridges, but I did turn up a recently published MA thesis by Nathan Darroch's, in which Darroch specifically addresses the case of Russell Square to King's Cross and the need for the GNPBR to travel reasonably directly to improve journey times over the preexisting competition: Note that the modern mapping contained in that the paper is not much use for OpenStreetMap purposes since it is too recent to be out-of-copyright. However the text and plan do confirm the validity of the Bartholomew 1908 for this section, so for the moment I have updated the OSM Piccadilly Line alignment using the 1908 map. If/when we can get the LUL infrastructure protection/asset register available under the Open Government Licence, this, or the original high-quality deposited plans in the archives can be used for some additional refinement:
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2014 20:59:13 GMT
I know this thread closed months ago, but I thought I would introduce myself as the very same author of the MA dissertation relating tot he alignment of the tubes. A fantastic read, though I say so myself. It is part of my employment to research anomalies and explain things such as tunnel alignments, so if you ever have any questions please feel free to drop me a line through this website. Another paper currently awaiting publication in the Journal of Transport and land use: www.jtlu.org/index.php/jtlu/article/view/411If I can work out how, I intend to set up a thread explaining tunnel alignments and perhaps some other historical/legal/ownership/rights/responsibilities threads, and other published papers, if you are interested.
|
|
|
Post by rapidtransitman on Jan 7, 2014 23:54:03 GMT
Nathan,
Please see your messages for the error message detail I get when I try to open the Journal of Transport and Land Use link.
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Jan 8, 2014 0:01:24 GMT
I *think* the link is this rather than the DOI one: www.jtlu.org/index.php/jtlu/article/view/411/364Meme - if you want me to set up a separate thread for you please send me a PM or else you can look on the help board and this will show you how it's done.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2014 8:35:28 GMT
That is great, thak you, Londonstuff. I shall have a look at the help board and get back to you if I have any problems
|
|