Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 22:42:57 GMT
I am wondering why there seems to be no area to thread/post solely regarding for Tramlink? Formally called Croydon Tramlink. As other none tube lines get an area to talk about matters solely for them (DLR, LO, Crossrail). As this is a key transport link for half of South London. Can anyone answer this?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 23, 2013 22:53:45 GMT
I'm sure an Admin will be along with the definitive answer, but IIRC last the the question was asked the response went a bit like "a line has to be drawn somewhere, we do railways but not tramways or busses".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2013 23:13:21 GMT
But Tramlink is classed as a 'Light Rail' just like the DLR and does run on old railways and off road in some parts. It does run on rails and is in London after all. Last time I checked.
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Post by domh245 on Jun 24, 2013 7:31:44 GMT
Maybe there is a "Your platforms must be at least this tall to enter" sign hanging on one of the admin's computers?
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gantshill
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Post by gantshill on Jun 24, 2013 8:40:21 GMT
I used to belong to the Croydon Tramlink yahoo group. I don't know if it is still going - I unsubscribed about a year ago as I was getting too busy to read it properly. Perhaps this forum does not need to duplicate it.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 24, 2013 13:13:19 GMT
I used to belong to the Croydon Tramlink yahoo group. I don't know if it is still going - I unsubscribed about a year ago as I was getting too busy to read it properly. Perhaps this forum does not need to duplicate it. I think it's certainly something to look at upstairs. I quite like the idea, given that myself and AI were on the LTM tramrailtour in all the snow last January. Croydon looked really pretty under several inches of snow.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 24, 2013 17:13:55 GMT
The tramlink Yahoo group is still going, although it's not especially busy at the moment. I certainly wouldn't object to it being covered on here, and I don't think it would be overly duplicative as web and email fora have different strengths. There are yahoo groups for LU and for all London Transport (although that is almost entirely frequented by hardcore bus geeks) and the forum has coexisted with them happily for years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 17:27:14 GMT
Have a vote/poll on the matter? Seems to be support for a Tramlink area on District Dave?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 20:26:45 GMT
I've never had cause to use Tramlink, but I was surprised to find there wasn't a section. Another yes vote here!
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Post by phillw48 on Jun 24, 2013 20:35:41 GMT
Perhaps a dedicated section for other TfL services incorporating Tramlink, Emirates Airline, river and ferry services and other services under TfL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2013 20:48:16 GMT
I suggest a NR section as well. As this is a major network of railways in London and the surrounding countryside. There more then a few ideas for this.
Also why has no one address this from District Dave?!?
#ReorganizedOfDistrictDave
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Post by domh245 on Jun 24, 2013 21:15:23 GMT
I'd agree with phillw48 in that there should be a section for other TfL services, maybe buses could be included in that as well? But then again, District Dave is typically more of an UndergrounD forum, whilst the more general TfL stuff, such as Tramlink, can be found over on the TfL forums, as attended by some of our members!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 25, 2013 8:03:00 GMT
No need for a poll. Dave himself laid down the rule (the rest of the admins concurring) that Tramlink runs on roads so the vehicles are road vehicles not trains. Hence, as already said by the mods "a line has to be drawn somewhere", and this is it!!! There are several other forums dealing with TfL matters as a whole - Dave even needed persuading that LO should be in: the 'swing' factor was that we had already agreed on DLR's inclusion, so the rest of TfL sort of followed as an inevitability.
And that's how it will stay FTFF
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Jun 25, 2013 11:19:58 GMT
Thank you Phil
People have joined this forum for what it IS. It ain't broke, so it doesn't need fixing.
And I do think it's a bit out of order to join something, then want to change the rules for the existing members immediately upon joining.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 25, 2013 16:16:55 GMT
The member who asked joined in February. Please check before posting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 19:41:21 GMT
Some members agree with me on here and have messages me (Mostly new) saying that 'this should of been asked years ago' and 'that new young members ideas are just as good as old members ideas'. This was just an idea that could of been simply been solved by democratic means, instead it turn into a conflict #ReorganizedOfDistrictDave
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Post by domh245 on Jun 25, 2013 19:57:58 GMT
I don't think that the thread became too much of a conflict, but I guess everyone reads things differently, and indeed some members always seem to have a more argumentative slant to their posts, but like I said, it all depends on how it is read. Also, I'd probably suggest trying to refrain from using hashtags. Not everyone here is particularly savvy with of social media (for want of a better word), so whilst it makes sense for some people, it is completely lost on others.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 25, 2013 20:14:02 GMT
As a bus driver myself as is/was Colin and Phil we have long tried to swing Dave into our theme, but he always maintained that it was a District Line board from the outset, and it's with pleasure we have the other boards.
Dave put his thumb down to expanding the board much more than we have now, and it's his wish we must follow.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 25, 2013 20:28:46 GMT
Some members agree with me on here and have messages me (Mostly new) saying that 'this should of been asked years ago'... As I alluded to in my post above, this question has been asked before, Phil has now supplied the answer to the question from his memory banks. ...'that new young members ideas are just as good as old members ideas'. Lets just be clear that when I use "New" and "Old" member I am referring to length of membership, not age. No-one is saying that it is a bad idea; if one of our old members had suggested this I'm sure the response from the Admins would have been the same. This forum was set up by Dave to discuss the UndergrounD - now he has passed on the Admins run the forum in the spirit he intende. As the red text above explains the Overground was only included because Dave included the DLR; he wasn't up for trams. This was just an idea that could of been simply been solved by democratic means, instead it turn into a conflict [sic] As the old members of the forum know this forum and its policy is defined by the Admins, they listen to what forum members think and want and base their decisions on that and what they think Dave would have wanted; the Forum Staff want to see this place continue in Dave's memory and thrive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 21:03:19 GMT
I think that not being open to change and that sometimes it is best to get with the times is a worrying thing for the future of the forum. Dave memory is important but to have a cult like rules which nothing really can be changed or voted on at members request is terrible.
RIP Dave
#ReorganizedOfDistrictDave
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 25, 2013 21:12:30 GMT
Let me be clear, the Forum Staff are open to change. The forum today is different to the forum I joined in 2008, as a result of Forum Staff listening to members. A line has to be drawn somewhere, we discuss things that run soley on Railways. Other forums discuss things that run on roads, however our niché is things that run only on Railways.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2013 21:42:20 GMT
Me and the two friends use Futureguy profile agree that the forum has changed over the years in terms of the running and understand the importants of members but we and other members agree that change is a matter of life, you can escape it. We think that other sections needs to be added to the forum. Tramlink, NR, Bus' s etc We ask if other members who feel there should be further changes should feel free to post on this thread.
#RecognizedOfDistrictDave
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 25, 2013 22:47:10 GMT
I can see good arguments for the inclusion of Tramlink, given that it is a TfL service that runs on rails. Those rails are in the road though and it's closer to a bus service than an an Underground service in terms of the TfL organisational structure so there are equally good arguments against it. Personally I'd also be open to more NR discussion here, although focused on the London metro services, as that's where the competence of this forum lies. Particularly if TfL do secure control over the Greater Anglia and Southeastern metro services the distinction between TfL and NR will be blurred, but a line needs to be drawn somewhere. While I also have interests in say Glasgow to Manchester expresses, they not at all relevant to this forum and so on the far side of any reasonable line. There are other forums who deal with national National/Network Rail matters and do a better job of it than we could. As for buses, personally my interest in them is peripheral but I know that we have some enthusiasts and experts here (not least Colin and deansullivan). Buses are a completely different beast to railways though with little overlap between them. There is the aforementioned London's Transport Yahoo Group that largely focuses on bus discussion, and I think there are one or more web forums as well, but I don't know details of them (as I say, it's not my interest). I don't feel that it would be a good match for this forum. River services are a potentially interesting area too, but operationally they are essentially just specialist buses and so the same comments as above largely apply. Taxis and minicabs are less relevant still with cycle hire and the dangleway even less relevant than taxis. A while back I did suggest the possibility of a family of forums for TfL/transport in London, where independent forums focused on their specialised area with limited cooridination between them. This didn't get very far at all, but whether that was lack of interest or something else I don't remember.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 26, 2013 9:02:44 GMT
Me and the two friends use Futureguy profile agree that the forum has changed over the years in terms of the running and understand the importants of members but we and other members agree that change is a matter of life, you can escape it. We think that other sections needs to be added to the forum. Tramlink, NR, Bus' s etc We ask if other members who feel there should be further changes should feel free to post on this thread. #RecognizedOfDistrictDave ADMIN WARNING You are stepping on dangerous ground here my friend! On this forum, members are welcome to suggest things, just as you have, but this forum has NEVER been a democracy. Dave didn't want it that way and so it continues. If suggestions meet with staff approval and are agreed on (quite often the case) the change is made, but if not there are never any polls, votes etc.. If that's what you want there are several other transport forums who do precisely that. But if you don't like the way things are run here you are free to leave at any time.
And on the issue itself, other members have made it clear they totally agree with the current position on Tramlink - but they often don't post, they just send an admin a PM instead, so you won't see it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 12:49:31 GMT
What a way to run a welcoming forum, eh? This whole thing is ridiculous. A bright red ADMIN WARNING?
Is this site run as a memorial to its founding member rather than as a changing, current, lively discussion?
*heads back to London Reconnections for informed, tram-inclusive, non-autistic absurdities*
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 26, 2013 14:15:16 GMT
While Futureguy's tone may not have been the best way to express their views, I do not feel that Phil's tone was an appropriate response to it. This forum is not a democracy, but neither are the administrators absolute monarchs and other users peasants to be trodden on. A simple, polite message explaining the situation to someone who doesn't have years of memories about the way this forum has evolved would have been a far more productive use of everyone's time. It is not that long ago when the staff of this forum were asked to show more respect to the members, and in almost every case that is exactly what has happened. Sadly this is not one of those occasions. As to the topic, there are good arguments for and against including trams on this forum, but "Never! Dave didn't want them, now don't argue or you'll get blocked" is not one of them.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 26, 2013 15:05:50 GMT
I think at the moment, this thread is best locked.
For information, I will say that I raised the matter upstairs and there was a discussion amongst the Forum Staff.
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