Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 3, 2013 14:41:36 GMT
Max Kinnings, one of our members, sought lots of help from our members in trying to get the Underground aspect of his latest book (about a year old) totally accurate: thanks to all who answered his questions, because he seems to have succeeded! I have now read it and can heartily recommend it - and here's why (a review). The basic plot is a Northern line train held stationary in a tunnel by pseudo-Christian terrorists. So if not interested, look away now!! Pseudo 'Lamb of God' Tommy wants to sacrifice a trainload of passengers to right the world's wrongs and make himself the Messiah by dying himself. To do this he first 'befriends' a T/op on a transport chatroom then grooms him by PMs etc. to reveal his personal details. He now, with his accomplices, one of whom is his sister, kidnaps the T/op's family while he is leaving for work, and under that threat to coerce him into agreeing to the plans to stop the train in a 'hollow' (dip) in the line between Leicester Square and Tottenham Court Road. He demands internet access at deep level, which the security services initially refuse, to let him broadcast himself to the world.In order to achieve his aims he blows up the casing of an old culverted river in his pre-chosen place, gradually flooding the tunnel over a period of hours so that all will eventually drown - attempted escapees are ruthlessly gunned down by machine fire by him and his sister (the third member dying by many people's "sex and death" fantasy. To say much more would spoil it, and although a lot turns out OK in the end, there is an unexpected and sinister final twist. This book is a good read and keeps you interested all the time. The origins and backgrounds of the characters fit in well with the plot. There are one or two intermediate twists which genuinely catch the reader out, and one or two acts which are a very sad reminder of the condemnatory non-forgiving blame culture in which we now live. All the characters, main and subsidiary, are totally believable, from the blinded (in 'gov't service') hostage negotiator to the 'No2' in the appropriate "government department" who will do anything, including killing, to cover up departmental deficiencies and advance his own promotion. Also believable is the interaction between Tommy and the T/op George, ranging at times between Stockholm Syndrome at its extreme to the complete opposite as the hours pass. Oh, and don't mention (two years ago.....) the acquisition and use of IRA Semtex, stored in the capital, to aid the rescue of the survivors before it's too late!!! And just when you think it's all safe and sorted it turn out it isn't by a long way. I really enjoyed reading it - and considering my usual fare is books well over 50 years old and totally different genres, that's really saying something!! Reading time is about 8-9 hours for the average reader, and, as said above, there are no visible (IMO) LU inaccuracies. Well done all for that help. It's a thick book but is well laid out and is largish print for the hard-of-hearing . I recommend it as a good holiday read. The trailer for the film on Youtube is another story though...... You can read further here: www.maxkinnings.com/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2013 15:21:50 GMT
Perhaps you should have mentioned the spoilers in the thread title. That was more like a plot summary than a review.
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 3, 2013 15:33:34 GMT
An interesting plot indeed! I see the positive review as a promotion of the book and I'm wondering how, in the light of relatively recent past forum policy, such blatant advertising of terrorism, even as a fiction, can be justified in this place when everyday real life occurrences on the railway such as actual and potential fatalities and all discussion thereof are outlawed.
Personally I have no problem with the publication of the book review, or the plot of the book as specified but I do think that the top team need to look seriously at whether the posting of the book review is a clear departure from the spirit, if not the letter, of the current forum rules which as we are all aware forbid mention of much that is already in the public domain or which can be seen when travelling the system, viewing the official TfL website and elsewhere online.
To my mind advertising the plot of the book in this place is just as bad as discussion of what is in the trackside cable runs and what lies behind certain doors at certain locations, bearing in mind that we were warned not so long ago that potential terrorists will glean information here. I think it only right and proper to point out that giving such people ideas is just as bad as giving them information!
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 4, 2013 5:11:30 GMT
There is no need for a policy review, this being the third book to be reviewed, the others not even being written by members.
And we would have allowed any member to write that review.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 4, 2013 5:19:48 GMT
Perhaps you should have mentioned the spoilers in the thread title. That was more like a plot summary than a review. Sorry, I have no idea what you mean. I'm a scientist not a literary person and haven't a clue as to the difference between a plot summary and a review. And what are 'spoilers'? When I was at school we were taught that a book review should contain the title, a summary of the plot, then analysis and personal impressions. So that's what I did. Sorry if English teachers teach something different these days.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 4, 2013 7:17:45 GMT
Perhaps you should have mentioned the spoilers in the thread title. That was more like a plot summary than a review. Sorry, I have no idea what you mean. I'm a scientist not a literary person and haven't a clue as to the difference between a plot summary and a review. And what are 'spoilers'?When I was at school we were taught that a book review should contain the title, a summary of the plot, then analysis and personal impressions. So that's what I did. Sorry if English teachers teach something different these days. I agree that a review should contain a plot summary. It's generally thought best to either not mention elements of the plot that reveal significant things that the reader is not expected to know until s/he gets to a certain point or to warn the reader that these are coming. There are obvious things such as revealing the culprit in a murder mystery but more subtle ones such as saying 'after he remarried' when the subject is happily married for the first half of the book. When these things are revealed in a review (or discussion) they are called 'spoilers' because they can spoil the enjoyment of the book. (You clearly don't watch Doctor Who.) Many sites (particularly those discussing books or films) have a tag so that text can be hidden unless the reader takes some action to see it. ETA: I don't think anything you wrote could really be described as a spoiler. Elements such as flooding a tunnel do not need to be kept secret unless the author expects it to be a shock to the reader And it's hardly surprising that there may be a twist as the end.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2013 7:40:49 GMT
Please can the Mods clarify something for me? If II post anything related to graffiti on the Underground on District Dave I have broke the rules as I am seen to be effectively promoting graffitti. I write a book on a terrorist attack on the Underground and give some detail of the scenario on this Forum and that is OK!
Both of the above have occurred and could unfortunately occur again so why is there this inconsistency within the District Dave forum rules?
Nigel
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 4, 2013 10:24:33 GMT
Please can the Mods clarify something for me? If II post anything related to graffiti on the Underground on District Dave I have broke the rules as I am seen to be effectively promoting graffitti. I write a book on a terrorist attack on the Underground and give some detail of the scenario on this Forum and that is OK! Both of the above have occurred and could unfortunately occur again so why is there this inconsistency within the District Dave forum rules? Nigel Simple - Graffiti is real and criminal and anti-social. The book is a work of FICTION, and once you have read it you'll realize that despite its 'authenticity', in the real world it's just that - FICTION! It could never actually happen due to the efficiency of our security services (and that's not just jingoism - I know more about bits of it than many, and nearly 90% of actual genuine terrorist threats and their disposal never reach any area of the press). That's what makes it such a good read! Max and I have exchanged a fair few PMs, and I put it to him that "wouldn't xxxxxx have had yyyyyyy and the whole attack would have been thwarted before it started?" (see, no 'spoilers', my new word for the day ) and he said "actually, yes!!".
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Jun 4, 2013 10:29:18 GMT
It's generally thought best to either not mention elements of the plot that reveal significant things that the reader is not expected to know until s/he gets to a certain point or to warn the reader that these are coming. There are obvious things such as revealing the culprit in a murder mystery but more subtle ones such as saying 'after he remarried' when the subject is happily married for the first half of the book. When these things are revealed in a review (or discussion) they are called 'spoilers' because they can spoil the enjoyment of the book. (You clearly don't watch Doctor Who.) Many sites (particularly those discussing books or films) have a tag so that text can be hidden unless the reader takes some action to see it. ETA: I don't think anything you wrote could really be described as a spoiler. Elements such as flooding a tunnel do not need to be kept secret unless the author expects it to be a shock to the reader And it's hardly surprising that there may be a twist as the end. Thanks for that help - it seems I got most of it about right after all! And the flooding of the tunnel - seeing it's the biggest thing visible on the dustjacket of the hardback you can hardly miss the idea that it might be part of the plot......
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 4, 2013 11:54:52 GMT
And the flooding of the tunnel - seeing it's the biggest thing visible on the dustjacket of the hardback you can hardly miss the idea that it might be part of the plot...... Quite, and you can bet your life any film trailer would feature something so dramatic very prominently.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 4, 2013 12:03:04 GMT
Should the author read this thread he might like to point out something to his publisher.
The Kindle edition of this book costs £5.03.
The paperback costs £5.34 new, but you can get a 'very good' used copy for £1.50.
Profit to publisher and royalties to author on Kindle version: something. Profit to publisher and royalties to author on secondhand sale: zilch.
On top of the cost problem, you can neither lend nor resell a Kindle book.
So unless someone is desperate to read a book on an ebook reader, the pricing and other Kindle disincentives are such that the prospective reader is actually steered away from a method of purchase that would make some money for both publisher and author.
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Post by railtechnician on Jun 4, 2013 12:34:56 GMT
Please can the Mods clarify something for me? If II post anything related to graffiti on the Underground on District Dave I have broke the rules as I am seen to be effectively promoting graffitti. I write a book on a terrorist attack on the Underground and give some detail of the scenario on this Forum and that is OK! Both of the above have occurred and could unfortunately occur again so why is there this inconsistency within the District Dave forum rules? Nigel Simple - Graffiti is real and criminal and anti-social. The book is a work of FICTION, and once you have read it you'll realize that despite its 'authenticity', in the real world it's just that - FICTION! It could never actually happen due to the efficiency of our security services (and that's not just jingoism - I know more about bits of it than many, and nearly 90% of actual genuine terrorist threats and their disposal never reach any area of the press). That's what makes it such a good read! Max and I have exchanged a fair few PMs, and I put it to him that "wouldn't xxxxxx have had yyyyyyy and the whole attack would have been thwarted before it started?" (see, no 'spoilers', my new word for the day ) and he said "actually, yes!!". Even GOD, if one believes in such an entity, would be very naive to suggest that something "could never happen", that is the complacency that allowed 7/7/05, and other events to transpire without let or hindrance. No matter how good Britain's security services and police forces are claimed to be they are not infallible as we have seen more than once in the last decade and London Underground is a big target for anyone schooled in terrorism who has the necessary attributes and support to succeed in any disruptive endeavour. Never forget that terrorists usually make a much bigger mess than graffiti 'artists'.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 14, 2013 17:18:13 GMT
I'm not an expert in Polish but is this magazine cover anything to do with this subject?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 15, 2013 12:46:54 GMT
the main headline translates (according to Google) as "Black [River] Volga Haunting London". On the left the text is apparently "Polish clinics better than the NHS" and "Hot summer in the UK"
I'm not sure what it's on about, but it doesn't seem related. It's good cover art though.
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Post by domh245 on Jun 15, 2013 13:59:26 GMT
Well, the plot of "Baptism" does involve a river.
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Post by 1018509 on Jun 15, 2013 15:42:30 GMT
Perhaps you should have mentioned the spoilers in the thread title. That was more like a plot summary than a review. The detective did it. No! Sorry. That was "The Mousetrap" wasn't it?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 15, 2013 16:20:53 GMT
You mean it wasn't the Butler?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jun 15, 2013 20:53:26 GMT
The murderer did it.
I have read mysteries in which the detective did it (without realising) and where the victim did it. (Both by the same author)
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Post by phillw48 on Jun 15, 2013 21:55:28 GMT
Agatha Christie only wrote about 6 novels. She just changed the detective/victim/murderer/time/place/method/red herring etc.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jun 16, 2013 7:41:38 GMT
Agatha Christie once explained her mode of operation in writing. She would write the entire novel without any idea who the murderer was. She would then read it and decide who was the most unlikely, make him or her the murderer and go back and make any subtle changes necessary provide clues.
A great many writers have since used this technique, though not, fortunately, exclusively.
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 16, 2013 15:37:53 GMT
Black [River] Volga Haunting London More likely they meant Volga car:
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 16, 2013 18:56:14 GMT
That would make more sense!
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