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Post by railtechnician on Apr 12, 2013 18:31:14 GMT
That needs a bit of WTT mining to sort out properly. As a first approximation, I think that it could mean Aldgate/Mansion House. I think what must be borne in mind that this RSTD unit was a 'master' (temporary) and could be moved around to wherever the outer end of the RSTD ambit was located. AFAIAA the RSTD codes, and the antecedent ABCD (yes, I *do* mean antecedent) for City on the district side would be Manky House or Charing Cross. Yep that makes sense, I'd forgotten Mansion House! |
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Post by rdm on Apr 16, 2013 14:24:56 GMT
I'm puzzled by the lack of a Hounslow destination, but if by 'Barons Court' is meant 'West Kensington West' (the box that used to straddle the Piccadilly lines east of Barons Court station) then I feel that may be the best fit for this equipment. On second thoughts re 'Hounslow' being missing there would have needed to have been another transmitter to cover all possible destinations - South Harrow, Rayners Lane and Uxbridge are also missing, as are District destinations East of 'City' (unless anything east of Earl's Court went as 'City' to another box which would re-describe them forward).
Russell.
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Post by rdm on Apr 16, 2013 14:30:23 GMT
I'm puzzled by the lack of a Hounslow destination, but if by 'Barons Court' is meant 'West Kensington West' (the box that used to straddle the Piccadilly lines east of Barons Court station) then I feel that may be the best fit for this equipment. On second thoughts re 'Hounslow' being missing there would have needed to have been another transmitter to cover all possible destinations - South Harrow, Rayners Lane and Uxbridge are also missing, as are District destinations East of 'City' (unless anything east of Earl's Court went as 'City' to another box which would re-describe them forward). Russell. Sorry - I seem to have interposed in the discussion by replying to an older message. Richmond and LMR Goods are also missing if it was used at WKW... R. |
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 16, 2013 17:43:48 GMT
I'm puzzled by the lack of a Hounslow destination, but if by 'Barons Court' is meant 'West Kensington West' (the box that used to straddle the Piccadilly lines east of Barons Court station) then I feel that may be the best fit for this equipment. On second thoughts re 'Hounslow' being missing there would have needed to have been another transmitter to cover all possible destinations - South Harrow, Rayners Lane and Uxbridge are also missing, as are District destinations East of 'City' (unless anything east of Earl's Court went as 'City' to another box which would re-describe them forward). Russell. Sorry - I seem to have interposed in the discussion by replying to an older message. Richmond and LMR Goods are also missing if it was used at WKW... R. It may well have been West Ken W but like you say there are a number of destinations missing so either there is another transmitter or like has been said up thread it is Hanger Lane Junction or Turnham Green. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 16, 2013 19:22:08 GMT
It may well have been West Ken W but like you say there are a number of destinations missing so either there is another transmitter or like has been said up thread it is Hanger Lane Junction or Turnham Green.[/quote] Either this is a one-directional unit or a two-directional one. If the latter, you would expect all possible destinations available from that location, east and west, to be displayed. If the former, all destinations in one direction and none in the other. It is therefore unlikely to be Turnham Green - as it includes some, but not all, possible destinations west of there:Acton Town and Ealing Common but not Broadway, or anywhere on the Hpounslow or South Harrow branches. Indeed, the absence of any of the western termini indicates it must be a one-directional (eastbound) one, and therefore must be west of the most westerly destination shown: Ealing Common. The presence of Southend excludes anywhere before North Ealing the South Harrow branch, the presence of Picadilly Line destinations excludes Ealing Broadway - therefore it must, surely, be from either Hanger Lane Junction or Ealing Common itself |
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 16, 2013 20:42:52 GMT
The presence of Southend excludes anywhere before North Ealing the South Harrow branch, <gentle voice> No, it doesn't. </gv> I cannot find all my RSTD notes to check something, but I have dug through the WTT notes - the District had the running powers for three trains an hour beyond South Harrow to Uxbridge and also ran three trains an hour to South Harrow. This stopped on 4/7/32 (I have the WTT for this Picc extension in my hands); I also have all the signalling notices. Doing a joining up exercise, the TD for 'Southend' would be common along all branches of the District EB; granted there may be portions of line where the same code could be used for a different train, but more likely that the code was 'reserved': this is still the case with some District TDs today, where BDE (say) is prohibited Rayners Lane - Ealing Broadway, Earls Court - Mansion House, East Putney - Earls Court but is used High St. Ken. [ex Olympia] (West Kensington - Earls Court). It is a long, long time since I looked through the WTTs plans, so I cannot say exhaustively that Southend trains were ever considered to run from Uxbridge pre-July 1932, but what I can say is given this selection of destinations it is for a one-way unit that would be at the westernmost end of the RSTD system, most likely before the four tracking was completed. I have now carefully gone through the operating paperwork of the time, and if all the photographs are contemporaneous I say that this unit was at South Harrow and was spare at the times the photographs were taken. It is a 'universal terminator' (actually, a 'universal transmitter'). |
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Post by rdm on Apr 17, 2013 10:59:03 GMT
MRFS42, as a matter of record, I assume that pre-1932 there was actually a signal box at Hanger Lane Jn? I have seen an ancient picture of the interior of Ealing Common 'box taken before it took over the signalling of that junction but with space on the illuminated diagram for the junction to be shewn. I used to live within sight of the junction and would be fascinated to see any pictures or diagrams for a box at HLJ - do you by any chance have such documents in your archive, please? I am aware that in the late 1950s/early 1960s the whole area came under a combination of Acton Town and Ealing Broadway, prior to being subsumed into Earl's Court's control area, and that during the time when Ealing Common (WM) was still open there were fewer wrong routings at HLJ because of the use of the mark one eyeball by the signalman there when wrongly described trains appeared!
Many thanks.
Russell.
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 17, 2013 12:09:55 GMT
I'm having a quick dig through... I know I've got something, somewhere.
Ealing Broadway controlled Hanger Lane IMR from 1/11/59; Box WO at Hanger Lane opened 23/6/03, signals became semis in July 1905, closed 9/5/25 with control passing to Ealing Common the day after.
I might have a diagram of the 1925 - 1959 arrangements, as well as the diagram of the 1907 arrangements and the locking: send me a PM via 'the other place' (JH).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2013 18:39:50 GMT
I don't know how the TD system worked before what we currently have if it has or has not changed I wouldnt know but in some of the prints at certain sites it mentions the usual A B C D E codes but also a G code. None of the current equipment has the facility to add a G code so I'm only presuming this was used back in the old days. Ealing Broadway still does control Hanger Lane Junction via Prog Machines and high speed scanning housed at Ealing Broadway
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Post by coyote on Apr 17, 2013 20:37:38 GMT
Ribbon Storage TD had more codes available than the usual A to E codes.
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