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Post by coyote on Apr 7, 2013 20:02:57 GMT
Found this photo in a old book, not one that I have seen elsewhere.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2013 20:12:44 GMT
A fantastic find - Cockfosters end of Cockfosters depot.
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 7, 2013 20:55:47 GMT
Wow! What date was this taken? 1932?
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 7, 2013 20:55:55 GMT
Wow! What date was this taken? 1930?
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Post by coyote on Apr 8, 2013 17:22:59 GMT
Another couple of photos from "Everyday Knowledge in Pictures" an undated book but a fascinating read.  Not sure where this is, looking at the destinations available  |
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Old photo
Apr 8, 2013 17:58:49 GMT
via mobile
Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 8, 2013 17:58:49 GMT
Not sure where this is, looking at the destinations available Turnham Green cabin springs to mind, although 'Hounslow' is missing. |
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Post by coyote on Apr 8, 2013 18:07:15 GMT
I don't think it is Turnham Green and it is not Acton Town. From vague memories of the Central line befoe resignalling, there were separate units for EB and WB. So it must be from somewhere to the west of Ealing Common that does District and Picc destinations and non stop codes, South Harrow, Rayners Lane? Or Northfields seems more likely.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 8, 2013 19:49:06 GMT
So it must be from somewhere to the west of Ealing Common that does District and Picc destinations and non stop codes, South Harrow, Rayners Lane? Or Northfields seems more likely. Can't be Northfields - you can't get to Ealing Common from there. It must be somewhere on the South Harrow branch - although I'm surprised to see Southend on there as I though those trains only went from E Bdy. Could it be Hnager Lane junction? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 8, 2013 19:55:46 GMT
Barons Court?
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a60
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Post by a60 on Apr 8, 2013 23:27:18 GMT
Reminds me a bit of Highgate...
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Post by snoggle on Apr 11, 2013 15:08:30 GMT
The signal diagram is definitely Acton Town. The text under the photo says so! Also it is pretty clear that the left end of the mimic diagram has the paired district and picc tracks with the sidings between them. The South Acton branch is also on there.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 11, 2013 16:09:26 GMT
The signal diagram is definitely Acton Town. The text under the photo says so! Also it is pretty clear that the left end of the mimic diagram has the paired district and picc tracks with the sidings between them. The South Acton branch is also on there. I think the majority know the diagram in the signal cabin and indeed the track layout photo are indeed of Acton Town. The above location speculation relates to the describer barrel and which signal cabin contained it - as the original poster couldn't identify that image. |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 11, 2013 16:29:12 GMT
The signal diagram is definitely Acton Town. The text under the photo says so! Also it is pretty clear that the left end of the mimic diagram has the paired district and picc tracks with the sidings between them. The South Acton branch is also on there. I think the majority know the diagram in the signal cabin and indeed the track layout photo are indeed of Acton Town. The above location speculation relates to the describer barrel and which signal cabin contained it - as the original poster couldn't identify that image. OK fair enough. I would still say the describer barrel belongs to Acton Town too. The destinations all make sense - High St must be High St Ken for the District Line. The rest of the destinations are logical for the Piccadilly and District (and beyond) lines east of Acton Town. I assume the reference to Acton Town on the dial is to put trains into the eastern sidings. I would guess that the photographs for this section of the book were taken in the same location. |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 11, 2013 16:50:38 GMT
I would still say the describer barrel belongs to Acton Town too. I assume the reference to Acton Town on the dial is to put trains into the eastern sidings. Why/where would the Acton Town signalman be sending/passing a description of 'Acton Town'? Also, Ealing Common without Ealing Broadway? No mention of South Harrow, Rayners Lane/Uxbridge. The plot thickens! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2013 17:07:19 GMT
I'm taking a complete guess and racking my brain I'm also thinking Barons Court
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Apr 11, 2013 17:21:32 GMT
@ D Stock
Years ago, there were some very ancient train describers still in use on the w/b District at Acton Town, painted dark green and still in use in the early '60s (I think). I never saw anything like them anywhere else on the system. South Harrow was one of the destinations on it.
I think they dated from before the Picc was extended west and thus trains from Acton didn't run to Rayners and Uxb, South Harrow was then the regular terminus for the District and the photo dates to about that time.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 11, 2013 19:15:23 GMT
I would still say the describer barrel belongs to Acton Town too. I assume the reference to Acton Town on the dial is to put trains into the eastern sidings. Why/where would the Acton Town signalman be sending/passing a description of 'Acton Town'? Also, Ealing Common without Ealing Broadway? No mention of South Harrow, Rayners Lane/Uxbridge. The plot thickens! Sorry to be carry on the debate but here is my logic. A post further up the thread said that uni-directional panels existed a long time ago. Therefore it is possible this is an eastbound panel but one which also allows for some reversing moves. I believe it is Acton Town because it deals with both Picc and District Line. All of the destinations are east of Acton Town barring two - Acton Town and Ealing Common. Is it not the case that the old signalling system would cause "Terminates Here" to be displayed on a platform indicator if a recognised local stabling "destination" was selected? Is it not possible to berth trains in the east facing sidings and also reverse them to the west to enter Ealing Common depot? Everyone is assuming that the places listed are normal destinations but some of them are actually reversing / depot points such as Hammersmith, Earls Court, Enfield West (Oakwood). I think I'll retire to the side lines as I am not sure how we will actually get beyond speculation to the answer unless we have a group member who worked on / repaired that panel and recognises the equipment. Here's hoping.  |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 11, 2013 20:04:53 GMT
I might have an RSTD diagram that covers it - even though I've never worked on the system. I can definitively say that it is not Acton Town. Watch this space.
Also - bear in mind that these units were not primarily for the platform displays, these units drove the descriptions between cabin - the passenger signs were an add on, often driven through combinators so the public display would be different to the cabin displays.
EDIT: Partial answer Part 1: I have a suspicion that the non-stop codes were altered in 1934/5 I know that the WB Picc codes were altered in September 1935 and I think the EB road was done at a different date.
Partial Answer Part 2: Given the timimg of the pictures, it is possible that this RSTD unit configuration dates from the stageworks at the west end of the Picc - the units would be installed with all possible destinations (qv. the ability to set up Denham WB on the Central) in this case Cockfosters is present when going on the photographic evidence alone that Enfield West was the end.
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Post by coyote on Apr 11, 2013 20:06:09 GMT
The describer set up unit is not from Acton as the photo of the cabin shows that the ones there are built into the lever frame, not individual and round topped like the one in the photo.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 11, 2013 20:29:38 GMT
The describer set up unit is not from Acton as the photo of the cabin shows that the ones there are built into the lever frame, not individual and round topped like the one in the photo. Bear with me - I'm looking through the perils for the eastern and western extensions to the Picc. - round topped RSTD units like this were used at Acton in the stageworks. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 11, 2013 21:08:37 GMT
Right - I think this is from South Harrow, after looking through the relevant perils - I have the appropriate WTTs too. It is a temporary one, and has been removed from the box, to allow the later 'naked' picture to be taken of the innards.
Just got to look through my WV notes.... (and TT notes, for that matter)
Anyone care to offer an alternative?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 7:59:36 GMT
Southend?
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Post by phillw48 on Apr 12, 2013 8:41:34 GMT
There was a through service via the District to Southend that was operated by the District between Ealing Broadway and Barking using pairs of electric locomotives. Special rolling stock was used provided by the LT&S for this service. |
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 12, 2013 11:57:33 GMT
Right - I think this is from South Harrow, after looking through the relevant perils - I have the appropriate WTTs too. It is a temporary one, and has been removed from the box, to allow the later 'naked' picture to be taken of the innards. Just got to look through my WV notes.... (and TT notes, for that matter) Anyone care to offer an alternative? But what about 'City'? I take that to be Moorgate/Liverpool Street so were there through services from South Harrow via High Street and Edgware Road or possibly via the old Latimer Road connection? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2013 13:00:16 GMT
My assumption was that 'City' translated to Mansion House - which is otherwise a very surprising omission.
From the selection of destinations, I would have said Hanger Lane Junction, or possibly somewhere up the line to South Harrow (but in this case I'm surprised at Southend being included) - but I don't know enough to rate that any higher than a suggestion.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 12, 2013 13:29:04 GMT
That needs a bit of WTT mining to sort out properly. As a first approximation, I think that it could mean Aldgate/Mansion House. I think what must be borne in mind that this RSTD unit was a 'master' (temporary) and could be moved around to wherever the outer end of the RSTD ambit was located.
AFAIAA the RSTD codes, and the antecedent ABCD (yes, I *do* mean antecedent) for City on the district side would be Manky House or Charing Cross.
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 12, 2013 13:54:07 GMT
Another couple of photos from "Everyday Knowledge in Pictures" an undated book but a fascinating read. Not sure where this is, looking at the destinations available How about West Ken West? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 12, 2013 15:37:03 GMT
I assume 'City' meant anything heading via Victoria. At Wimbledon, the describers used (maybe they still do?) to read to Edgware Road or via City!
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2013 17:26:50 GMT
I assume 'City' meant anything heading via Victoria. At Wimbledon, the describers used (maybe they still do?) to read to Edgware Road or via City! That was also my assumption. As you say there are still some describers that use that distinction - particularly on the Wimbledon branch. Some trains can obviously terminate in the city at Tower Hill or Mansion House. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 12, 2013 18:13:07 GMT
Another couple of photos from "Everyday Knowledge in Pictures" an undated book but a fascinating read. Not sure where this is, looking at the destinations available How about West Ken West? Not going both ways, surely? Or did it make the switching-out easier? <Hmm> |
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