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Post by matthewthomas on Sept 2, 2005 20:57:24 GMT
Hi Again.
I am really going for a bash with lots of questions tonight.
Why do SSL not have suicide pits? Deep level lines do, but places like KX SSL don't? Is it not just as comman for people commiting suicide to use SSL lines?
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Post by piccadillypilot on Sept 2, 2005 21:22:31 GMT
It's probably more to do with the construction of the tunnels than for any other reason.
A tube station is in a 21ft diameter cast iron tunnel (slightly larger internally and concrete on the Victoria (don't know about the JLE)) and the trackbed is a few feet above the bottom and to the side. Therefore creating a pit is easy and has no effect on the integrity of the tunnel.
By comparison to create a pit in a sub-surface railway station would require digging into the invert and that is what keeps the tunnnel walls apart.
Therefore creating a pit in a sub-surface station is likely to weaken the tunnel as well as making it easier for ground water to rise into it.
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Sept 2, 2005 21:29:23 GMT
There is also the matter of the types of trains used, and the way they were built. Generally, until the D stock, Surface stock trains had bigger wheels, and less equipment hanging down as low as the tube stock. Thus there would be less chance of someone on the track being caught by equipment on a Surface stock train than a Tube stock.
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Post by chris on Sept 3, 2005 8:29:41 GMT
Do the suicide pits actually work?
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Post by piccadillypilot on Sept 3, 2005 10:00:35 GMT
Do the suicide pits actually work? It depends on how you want to measure their effectiveness. Every year quite a number of people manage to kill themselves by jumping into the pit at the same time as a train is entering the platform. edit: As far as I know, no one has killed themselves by jumping into one of these pits when a train was not entering the platform. An alternative that was once suggested was that they are not suicide pits but pits to gain access to the underside of a train in the event of a technical problem. IIRC they weren't built until the 1920s/30s.
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Post by chris on Sept 3, 2005 11:14:07 GMT
They were installed in the 1030's because there was a dperession and people kept jumping in front of trains. Even if the person does die, it's easier to remove the body with those pits.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2005 11:19:03 GMT
They were installed in the 1030's Read all about it! Tube suicide pits installed by the Saxons! Older than the Tower of London. EDIT: Yes, yes, I know. Don't mock the afflicted.....
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Post by piccadillypilot on Sept 3, 2005 11:40:16 GMT
Tube suicide pits installed by the Saxons! And an amazing co-incidence that they were in exactly the right places for the builders of the tube railways. Or is the case that the designs for the underground date back even further than was first thought?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2005 11:46:07 GMT
Tube suicide pits installed by the Saxons! And an amazing co-incidence that they were in exactly the right places for the builders of the tube railways. It is a little-known fact that the surveyors for the tube railways looked for these underground pits, and used them to decide the sites for stations.
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Post by chris on Sept 3, 2005 12:33:11 GMT
They were installed in the 1030's because there was a dperession . That, er, was, um a delibrate, er, test. To see if you read posts well or not! I have to go get something from my car............ **Doors slams, tyres screech**
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Post by q8 on Sept 3, 2005 13:53:58 GMT
edit: As far as I know, no one has killed themselves by jumping into one of these pits when a train was not entering the platform. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can give one ONE instance of a death in a suicide pit without a train's presence. Somewhere on the Bakerloo north of Baker Street.
A young man decided to end it all by killing himself under a train and to make sure he succeeded he jumped down into the pit standing upright. After a half a minute or so he must have changed his mind for he attempted to get out again.
He grabbed the rails to help himself out. Unfortunately the rails he grabbed were the negative and positive........
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Post by chris on Sept 3, 2005 16:16:56 GMT
That is unlucky. 50/50 chance of getting out alive. Wouldn't the people on the platform try and get him out, or called some station official?
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Post by piccadillypilot on Sept 3, 2005 16:32:17 GMT
I can give one ONE instance of a death in a suicide pit without a train's presence. What I had in mind, but didn't write, was someone jumping in as the means of ending it all. In the same way that people throw themselves off of high buildings, bridges etc. On a blackish humourous note, I heard a story about a chap who wanted to end it all so threw himself off the Clifton Suspension Bridge whilst the tide was out. He landed in the mud and survived the fall. At some point he had changed his mind about ending it all. Unfortunately, before they could get him out, the tide came in.
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Post by q8 on Sept 3, 2005 17:22:48 GMT
That is unlucky. 50/50 chance of getting out alive. Wouldn't the people on the platform try and get him out, or called some station official? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
AFAIR Chris people on the platform DID attempt to get assistance but it came too late. Anyway in cases like that observers seem to be afflicted with 'Rabbit headlight' syndrome.and stand transfixed awaiting for the inevitable. When it does happen they 'rubberneck' afterwards.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 5, 2005 11:05:08 GMT
I can give one ONE instance of a death in a suicide pit without a train's presence. What I had in mind, but didn't write, was someone jumping in as the means of ending it all. In the same way that people throw themselves off of high buildings, bridges etc. On a blackish humourous note, I heard a story about a chap who wanted to end it all so threw himself off the Clifton Suspension Bridge whilst the tide was out. He landed in the mud and survived the fall. At some point he had changed his mind about ending it all. Unfortunately, before they could get him out, the tide came in. I've not heard that one. The most common story about suicides from the Clifton Suspension Bridge is that a young lady in the Victorian period jumped off, but the large, billowing skirts she was wearing acted as a parachute. From the site PP linked to: Is it true that a Victorian lady survived a fall from the Bridge? In 1885 following an argument with a boyfriend Sarah Ann Henley from Bristol threw herself from the Bridge. Beneath her billowing dress she was wearing crinoline petticoats which slowed and cushioned her fall - and she had a huge helping of good fortune ! She was injured but was pulled from the mud, eventually recovered, and died in 1948 at the grand old age of 84.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2005 15:45:17 GMT
The JLE has suicide pits, even though it has PEDs to stop any suicides anyway. Do the suicide pits actually work? Yes, my first one under at Belsize Park on the Northern Line only lost his leg instead of his life, due to him falling in the suicide pit.
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