metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Feb 12, 2013 23:43:41 GMT
I'm looking at ways to power a 4 car train of standard stock. I like to link both my motor bogies together but only the leading bogie can hold a tenshodo. The trailing bogies are such a small wheel base they must be left unpowered. This leaves several options: 1) Use a Tenshodo in each motor car but run a busline the length of the train perhaps using the intercar pipes! 2) Use a single Black beetle motor and convert the trailing bogie into a pickup bogie and leave the rear motor car unpowered. (Will one BB pull 4 cars?) 3) Try Endo bogies? Do these have a similar power to Black Beetles? Anyone used them? Thanks  |
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 284
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Post by neilw on Feb 13, 2013 9:14:17 GMT
Hi Metman
not sure which Standard stock models you are using and thus weight of train. I use Black Beetles with the high gearing 27:1 which gives better torque and a more realistic top speed, they had to be made to order for the correct wheelbase of 25.0mm but then I'm picky like that! One unit easily pulls a 4-car train Of EFE with the Metromodels bogie mods. I imagine you would get away with it for a 4-car Radleys standard stock, the extra weight helping traction. I've not motorised mine yet, so can't definitely confirm. I model in EM, otherwise I could lend you some items to experiment with first before taking the plunge......
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Post by metroland on Feb 13, 2013 10:08:10 GMT
I've not used Endo so can't help there.
On my EFE tube stock I have a 1962 Central Line set with 4 cars (2 x Tenshodo in one of the middle cars) and I'd say it's over-powered on flat track and with Metromodels replacement bogies throughout.
I have 2 x EFE 1938 sets each with 3 cars and one Tenshodo power bogie (again with MM bogies throughout) and feel these should be ok for another car when I can get round to it.
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Post by greenpark on Feb 13, 2013 13:17:57 GMT
My one ENDO bogie has much the same pulling power as a Spud but runs a little smoother. Maybe that is because the pickups are better. I cut slots in the ENDO's protrusions so a Metromodels collar fits nicely. The baseplate that holds the axles in place is like an upturned table with the ends of the legs clipping into the frame. I was slow to realise this and on the way one of the legs broke off. Gluing it back together every time I lubricate the bogie is a bit of a show stopper.
I found that converting the ENDO bogie to DCC was straightforward: one wire wrapped round the protrusion and the other soldered to the top of the motor tab. I separated this tab from the frame with a slip of paper. I then repeated the wiring for the other side.
Moving on to wiring between the cars: I too am looking for the perfect solution. As I have up to nine wires to connect I am using ugly ribbon cable which renders the cars permanently coupled and can work loose to catch on a conductor rail. Roco do a four pole conductive coupler (two in a pack 40345) that clips into NEM pockets but it isn't easy to uncouple and could occasionally clip the centre fourth rail. Are there any other suggestions?
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 13, 2013 15:26:38 GMT
I would reduce the height of the fourth rail so that it is slightly below the running track level.
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Post by metroland on Feb 13, 2013 16:19:17 GMT
Alternatively use Code 60 rail and move it out slightly - that's the cheat I use to try and get the look in OO (which of course is 4'2" or so anyway)!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 20:19:49 GMT
Two 'Spud's should move a four-car set with ease. It does with mine on on my kitchen top! So long as you have pick-ups fitted to the trailing bogie of the DMs they should be ok.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 22:13:06 GMT
Two 'Spud's should move a four-car set with ease. It does with mine on on my kitchen top! So long as you have pick-ups fitted to the trailing bogie of the DMs they should be ok. 8 wheel pick-ups are a must on tube stock. XF |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 20:41:40 GMT
I'm looking at ways to power a 4 car train of standard stock. I like to link both my motor bogies together but only the leading bogie can hold a tenshodo. The trailing bogies are such a small wheel base they must be left unpowered. This leaves several options: 1) Use a Tenshodo in each motor car but run a busline the length of the train perhaps using the intercar pipes! 2) Use a single Black beetle motor and convert the trailing bogie into a pickup bogie and leave the rear motor car unpowered. (Will one BB pull 4 cars?) 3) Try Endo bogies? Do these have a similar power to Black Beetles? Anyone used them? Thanks Metman, I remotorised a Harrow Model shop white metel 4 car unit some years ago. The Endo bogies are far superior to the tenshodos and have about twice the pulling power. The unit would not run on a 2% gradient with Tenshodo bogies, they would just fall over. The Endos seem to work fine. I run a bus cable down the length of the train and use two pin micro connectors. These serve as couplers also in keeping the train together. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 20:46:08 GMT
See: This is the standard stock after re-motorisation with the Endo bogies. At the time I was just running 3 cars. I found that it drives four white metal cars with no hesitation.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Feb 19, 2013 22:59:53 GMT
Thanks,do these have a similar pulling power to black beetles?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 8:52:17 GMT
Just found this on the BR Blue Forum
This what I want for my Stock!
XF
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 20, 2013 9:04:12 GMT
Just found this on the BR Blue Forum This what I want for my Stock! XF I flagged these up about a week or more back. I can't find it now as there is no history before the upgrade. (Or if there is I can't find it.) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 11:25:09 GMT
Just found this on the BR Blue Forum This what I want for my Stock! XF Blimey, that's some way from the old Hornby stuff I've just uncovered in my loft!  I never knew it was so intense nowadays! Rich |
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 20, 2013 14:37:53 GMT
Just found this on the BR Blue Forum This what I want for my Stock! XF I flagged these up about a week or more back. I can't find it now as there is no history before the upgrade. (Or if there is I can't find it.) Correction, I flagged it up on 23rd Jan. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 14:41:16 GMT
Thanks,do these have a similar pulling power to black beetles? I measured the Endos as having about twice the pulling power of the Tenshendos, of the same wheel dia and frame. |
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Post by railtechnician on Feb 20, 2013 15:06:46 GMT
See: This is the standard stock after re-motorisation with the Endo bogies. At the time I was just running 3 cars. I found that it drives four white metal cars with no hesitation. Love it but I'm wondering if anyone modelling LU is actively using all four rails and working pickup shoes on the traction rails. I suspect that if anyone is the model will be in 'O' gauge or larger. Proper LT signalling with real track circuits and signal control circuitry, proper traction sections and without any of that DCC cheating would be impressive! Back in the day I recall the RTC 'O' gauge layout having proper LT signalling and communications, indeed it was treated like the 1:1 scale model as far as signal & comms upgrades went IIRC. Following resignalling in the 1970s we had to upgrade the telephone facilities to suit changes in working practices. I have wondered if the Ashfield House model railway is similarly properly signalled to modern standards or if 'cheating' is involved. The Earls Court signal school used to have a model layout at one time, it was defunct and stored in the loft when I discovered the remnants in the mid 1980s. It had a handmade 12 lever miniature frame with sliding lock bars designed to operate point rodding and signal wires so it must've been quite old at the time. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 15:30:28 GMT
Thanks,do these have a similar pulling power to black beetles? I measured the Endos as having about twice the pulling power of the Tenshendos, of the same wheel dia and frame. Sorry Metman, I misread your post. I can't answer for the Black beetles, as I have not made the same measurements comparing their pulling power. Having now used all three types of SPUD, my sense is the Endos have the best power to weight ratio. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 17:35:10 GMT
I flagged these up about a week or more back. I can't find it now as there is no history before the upgrade. (Or if there is I can't find it.) Correction, I flagged it up on 23rd Jan. I thought with the new forum software that the word "Correction" would flash like on does on a tube station platform!  XF |
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Post by metroland on Feb 20, 2013 18:08:01 GMT
Metman, I remotorised a Harrow Model shop white metel 4 car unit some years ago. The Endo bogies are far superior to the tenshodos and have about twice the pulling power. The unit would not run on a 2% gradient with Tenshodo bogies, they would just fall over. The Endos seem to work fine. I run a bus cable down the length of the train and use two pin micro connectors. These serve as couplers also in keeping the train together.[/quote]
Cyberman: For those of us who are all thumbs, could you post some diagrams or close-up pics of your arrangement pls? Sounds like I need to do something similar but can't quite get my head around the details. Tks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 20:27:37 GMT
Black Beetles give much superior performance than a Tenshodo and are the easiest to use with DCC
XF
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Feb 20, 2013 22:19:21 GMT
I'm just planning ahead for my Standard stock. The bogies are designed to fit around Tenshodos but BBs are more powerful but bigger and are a b*gger to fit under a tube car! The Endos are not much cheaper than the BB but would one endo work a 4 car train?
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Feb 23, 2013 17:03:37 GMT
I've done a little work on my four car 1962 pilot set and I'm hoping to respray three of the cars (one DM is green!) silver before weathering them - photos to follow.
I've managed to add the first tenshodo to the trailer and will add a second soon. Aside from hacking the metal chasis away it wasn't too bad. There is alot of power from one motor so two is going to be great!
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 23, 2013 17:50:40 GMT
One of the 1962 pilot motors was painted green.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Feb 23, 2013 18:05:57 GMT
Yes, it was 1570. It ran with 1441-9441-2440 as the rest of the unit was written off in a collision with a 1995 stock train. It had a strange look to it with 3 sliver cars and one green one but it will make an interesting addition to my layout and did run on the Met. There is a photo of the set at Croxley on a turning trip.
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