towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,970
|
Post by towerman on Jan 25, 2013 17:07:50 GMT
Anyone ever read this book by Adrian Vaughn critisizing the privatisation of BR?He really demolishes the arguments of the free marketeers.He also goes back to the nationalisation of the railways and how they never had a level playing field to compete with roads,especially with a minister of transport in the 50's & 60's (Marples) who was a director of a civil engineering company that was building some of the motorway network!!!
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Jan 25, 2013 19:37:24 GMT
No I've not read the book but I have seen in depth TV programmes on the subject over the years which draw the same conclusions. Personally I have always believed in free enterprise, however, I also believe that public services and utilities are sacrosanct and should be there to provide for the public and not line the pockets of greedy speculators. It is true that selling off services and utilities has freed them up to provide new services and products but there is more bad news than good for the customers. BT is a golden example of how selling off the utility opened up the market for competition and brought new and diverse services to the customers but it has also allowed cherry picking such that the service is not so wonderful outside the large conurbations. In the same way but on a much greater scale the National Rail network has become a disintegrated and fragmented network with poor services in many places and ridiculously high fares to make easy money for speculators. There are very few politicians who really represent their constituents and collectively they seldom represent the views of the electorate once in office. Thus £taxpayers billions are wasted year in year out and until relatively recently it was hard to know where all the money went. These days NR seems to have too much freight business to run efficient passenger services everywhere but the roads remain full of haulage vehicles adding to gridlock on a daily basis which suggests that neither road nor rail has had enough investment and planning for the future for decades. One has to wonder how this has happened in a country which the politicians insist is the fifth richest in the world. It matters not where we look, we are all paying more and more for gas, electricity, water, communications and travel, basic essentials to everyone nowadays, while the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the politicians wring their sweaty little hands in rip-off Britain.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 22:39:44 GMT
I haven't read it either but there is a problem that free enterprise doesn't always equate with competition. The railway is a large organisation comprising many constituent departments (maintenance, trains, tracks, signalling, departments, branches, freight, passengers etc) and it is the role of management to get these departments to work together in the organisation's (and customers') interest. Privatisation merely sold off each department and replaced a single, hopefully united, monopoly with a number of smaller monopolies each focused on their own parochial goals. Inevitably they ended up fighting each other with reduced support for the end customer. Tony Blair was very critical when he came to power but bleated there was no money available to unscramble the disaster - a bit of a change later when the banks fell apart .....
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Jan 26, 2013 11:33:02 GMT
Has anyone written a book about the Nationalisation of the railways? That wasn't exactly the great boon it was made out to be either. Instead of producing a co-ordinated transport system for the good of a nation in desperate need of re-investment, it produced an inflexible monolith which anyone with an ex-WD motor lorry could undercut. What investment was forthcoming disappeared into schemes involving blatant self-interest (the contractor's name- Marples -appears over and again on motorway-related press photographs), or ill-considered schemes abandoned no sooner than completed. Arguments about the 'fragmented' nature of rail services are specious. You can't get on someone else's bus, or collect your parcel from another courier's van, yet the road transport operators thrive. A private operator running a competing goods train was out of the question in BR days; even now the restrictions of access and combersome acceptance rigmarole make it unavailable to all but the largest operators, and unattractive even then. With no co-ordinated transport policy it little matters who owns what. The roads are clogged with untimetabled traffic, and the railways struggle to cope. it could be no other way.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jan 26, 2013 12:57:10 GMT
The railways do not make blunders. Railwaymen sometimes make blunders. But there is a distinction between a simple blunder and corruption/dishonesty. Most of the most blatant crimes against railways in this country have not been blunders, but have been blatant decisions that were against the public interest. I have written enough about Marples etc already on other threads on this forum, and l am not surprised that his name has already been mentioned by another contributor to this thread.
Corruption in ALL governments since 1951 has been rife. Corruption doesn't lead to blunders, but deliberate bad decisions purely for short term gain for a few. These by politicians of various parties of which perhaps Marples was the most blatant example. Beeching got the bad publicity, but his Baronetcy was his reward for being Marples' front man and taking the flak. Marples was aided by toothless men in suits, and bean counters. Many government organisations before de-nationalisation were infested with toothless men in suits, and post nationalisation the bean counters and the wide-boys have risen to prominence. "Railwaymen" have never had much say in what goes on. Railwaymen have a will to get things done, but 'the suits' find reasons why they won't be done. The wide-boys get things done that are not in the public interest.
I feel there should be a National Strategic Body to be above political decisions for things like transport and the environment. Politicians should not be able to serve on it. Too much damage has already been done, much of it is irreversible. A lot of HS2 has the smell of wide-boys in the background about it to be in the public interest. One day, a lot of information has to be released about other decisions that have been made, and when that comes out, a lot of people would be imprisoned for corruption if they were still alive.
Even many Conservative politicians stated that rail privatisation was a privatisation too many. But it went ahead regardless, and it made a small number of people very rich. Surprise! surprise!
Here's a guarantee. HS2 will start to cost far more than is currently stated, and will have to be cut back before the project is completed. But before that happens, a few more people will have become very rich on the back of it, whilst the disruption it causes to thousands if not millions will be a national disgrace.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 9:54:49 GMT
Driver Only Operation
Pacers
Staff cuts at near enough everywhere because of greedy TOCs
High Vis overkill
Non-standard couplings
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 18:46:04 GMT
If you look at the level of investment by BR in the 1980s to 1990s era:- - Invention on the tilting train (APT) - Networker Project NSE - Sprinterisation on Regional Railways - IC 225 on ECML - IC 250 on WCML (Proposed) - Networker Classic - Pacerisation allowing small local lines to stay open replacing big locos Haulling a 1 coach train!!
Post privitisation:- - Mallard Refurbishment of IC225s - 390s on WCML - 220s/221s on XC - Refurbishment and life extensions of HSTs - electrostars and desiros
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Jan 27, 2013 19:49:39 GMT
Some of the things which happen on the modern privatised railway are just farcical. For instance, stock not being fitted with compatible couplings. Who thinks this up and who approves it?
Not so long ago I was in Edinburgh during disruption. There were no trains for over 2 hours, as an earlier problem meant that there was no East Coast rolling stock to form them with. However, Scotrail had plenty of spare stock sitting in sidings!
TOCs generally not bothering to talk to each other, and beancounters and lawyers at each level of company creaming off a percentage.
The unfortunate thing is nobody seems to have the will to stop it!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 22:21:45 GMT
The issue of none standard couplers has cropped up frequently. Recently a 313 failed in the snow and after a six hour wait for a 73 to rescue it, the passengers could finally go home. In the area there were many 171s but the issue is that southerns new stock have delner couplers (171s, 377s) but the 313 built by BR in the 70s has a tightlock coupler.
I've seen IC225 sets on EC rescued by a HST set and even by two HST power cars coupled together to form a conventional loco!
|
|
|
Post by Tomcakes on Jan 27, 2013 22:36:43 GMT
Back in the 1990s it would be normal, in the case of closure for engineering works, for the 225s to be coupled up to a (say) 47 and dragged along a diversionary route without ohle.
These days there are no through services in such a situation, excepting the few HSTs, with the 225s terminating either side. Presumably the different companies don't wish to work together to allow EWS to loan East Coast a few locomotives over a weekend, work out the hire cost and how many lawyers we need to draft the agreement, decide what colour to paint them and what staff need training on them... whereas BR would have made a quick phone call?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 23:11:20 GMT
I think IC225s are hauled by 67s but communication between TOCs and FOCs is awful. As someone said in a behind the scenes program 'the rats at Euston can't be gotten rid of. Back under BR you'd phone the station mager and they'd phone pest control. Now we [virgin trains] can't do anything because they're in the London Midland section. But London Midland can't do anything because network rail operate the station but network rail can't do anything because they're in the London Midland area'
|
|
|
Post by brigham on Jan 28, 2013 9:40:55 GMT
Although thinking about it, the Politicians' greatest blunder affecting the railways goes right back to the Gauge Commission.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Jan 28, 2013 18:47:56 GMT
Back in the 1990s it would be normal, in the case of closure for engineering works, for the 225s to be coupled up to a (say) 47 and dragged along a diversionary route without ohle. It wasn't just engineering work, I remember as a child looking out of my parents house to see an "Electra" (aka IC225, Cl91+Mk4) being dragged up the Aire valley to Bradford Forster Square in the evening. Then the knitting came to Airedale and we waiting in anticipation to see this shiny new train come dashing along followed by a 321 on the local service. I'm sure you can imagine the disappointment when the diagram was swapped to an HST (insufficient power supply - still the case to this day I believe) and rather than shiny new 321 we got clapped out 308 that Londoners had had enough of.
|
|
towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,970
|
Post by towerman on Feb 1, 2013 16:34:51 GMT
Do try to read the book if you can,should be available in public libraries,the section on Railtrack and the way it ignored safety to chase profit is hair raising. Re Brigham's post,BR was hamstrung by the politicians with petty rules,esp in regards to freight,while the road freight industry had no such restrictions.
|
|