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Post by Hutch on Jan 25, 2013 11:06:27 GMT
Please could someone in the know tell me what the validity is (if any) of a Chiltern Railways issued ticket between London Terminals and Aylesbury by Any Route Permitted. Is travel to/from Baker Street permitted as well as Marylebone? Chiltern's timetables show services to/from Baker Street at the extremities of the day.
The National Rail Routeing Guide appears to be silent on the matter. Many thanks.
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Post by metrailway on Jan 25, 2013 12:03:33 GMT
It is valid. National Rail tickets which are valid between Marylebone and Harrow on the Hill are valid between Baker Street and Harrow on the Hill. You are, however, not allowed to break your journey between Harrow and Baker St.
NR tickets valid north of Harrow are allowed on Met services. Ticket holders with tickets valid north of Harrow, like yourself, are able to break their journey north of Harrow, including I think at Met only stations.
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Post by Hutch on Jan 25, 2013 14:03:44 GMT
Thanks and interesting. I take it though that Baker Street becomes the London Terminal and the extra short hop back to Marylebone on the Bakerloo is not included in a return journey starting at the latter?
From my reading of the Routeing Guide, it appears that the ticket I describe is also valid out of Paddington on Chiltern's one train per day on that route, or via FGW's Greenford Branch - thence the Central Line to West Ruislip - thence Chiltern to Aylesbury via High Wycombe. Quite a combo of NR and LU.
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Post by metrailway on Jan 25, 2013 22:33:54 GMT
Thanks and interesting. I take it though that Baker Street becomes the London Terminal and the extra short hop back to Marylebone on the Bakerloo is not included in a return journey starting at the latter? You are correct - Baker Street becomes the London Terminal so a Bakerloo journey to Marylebone wouldn't be permitted. From my reading of the Routeing Guide, it appears that the ticket I describe is also valid out of Paddington on Chiltern's one train per day on that route, or via FGW's Greenford Branch - thence the Central Line to West Ruislip - thence Chiltern to Aylesbury via High Wycombe. Quite a combo of NR and LU. Journeys to London via High Wycombe are technically only valid on direct trains to/from Aylesbury. I have only learnt this today - they removed the easement which permitted changing at Princes Risborough very recently. EDIT: I doubt you will get penalised if you did change at Princes Risborough. |
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Post by brigham on Jan 26, 2013 11:50:33 GMT
Is the Marylebone/Baker Street arrangement from Watkin's day as chairman of both, or are we starting to see the flexibility we used to have when the Railway Clearing House was in full swing?
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Post by peterc on Jan 26, 2013 15:22:33 GMT
I am not sure if it goes that far back but I think it is a legacy arrangement from before nationalisation.
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Post by Hutch on Jan 28, 2013 8:14:18 GMT
Yes I see that the following easement has been removed:- However this one still remains - again in the convoluted, reverse English of the NRRG  |
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Post by metrailway on Jan 28, 2013 13:06:58 GMT
Easement 30039: Journeys via High Wycombe may travel via Aylesbury
This allows a Princes Risborough to London Terminals ticket to be valid via Aylesbury and Amersham. So it is valid to Baker Street. Whether the staff at Baker St will allow you in/out of the station is another matter...
On the topic of using an Aylesbury - London Terminals Any Permitted via High Wycombe, I asked this elsewhere and a user (who is employed at Chiltern) said that even though it is technically invalid, he can guarantee that the Any Permitted tickets (at least to/from London Terminals) exist explicitly to allow you to travel via High Wycombe (including with a change at Risborough).
Both National Rail Enquiries and Chiltern Railways websites still sell the Aylesbury - London Terminals Any Permitted ticket on journeys which require a change at Princes Risborough.
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Post by littlebrute on Jan 28, 2013 14:50:36 GMT
I'm interested in these Chiltern journeys to Baker Street at the extremities of the day, would love to see a picture of a Chiltern train stock at Baker Street
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Jan 28, 2013 15:37:54 GMT
I'm interested in these Chiltern journeys to Baker Street at the extremities of the day, would love to see a picture of a Chiltern train stock at Baker Street You may to wait a long time ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by peterc on Jan 30, 2013 20:50:28 GMT
They are not through journeys, the Chiltern trains terminate at Amersham with connections on the Metropolitan Line.
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Post by brigham on Jan 31, 2013 10:47:57 GMT
I'm interested in these Chiltern journeys to Baker Street at the extremities of the day, would love to see a picture of a Chiltern train stock at Baker Street You may to wait a long time ;D ;D ;D ;D Could be done with MGI Photosuite and a bit more ability than I've got. |
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Post by brigham on Feb 6, 2013 16:15:08 GMT
Just a sudden thought; would Chiltern stock be out-of-gauge for Baker Street?
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Post by carltona on Feb 6, 2013 19:42:10 GMT
Bear in mind that Chiltern stock is not all the same size. 165s are built to "GWR" gauge and the 168s and 172s are of a "normal" size, width wise that is. There are also the class 67s and mark 3s. Which does not cover up the fact that I don't know if any of it fits at Baker St.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2013 20:49:08 GMT
Although wasn't he A stock the widest passenger train?
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Feb 6, 2013 21:05:54 GMT
A stock were a whole 9cm wider than 165s at the widest point, but I can see the sweep profile being an issue: a car of A stock measured 16.17m in length, as opposed to 22.91m for a 165 (or 19.71m for a 67, but then coaching stock is required - a BR MkIII is 23m long). Does anybody here know if any mainline stocks are cleared to run on the upper Circle? Will the SSR always be maintained to A stock gauge, or will standards fall as the S stock become dominant?  |
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Post by brigham on Feb 7, 2013 11:34:49 GMT
It was the round-about route that GN&C stock used to take to reach Neasden that made me think something was 'in the way' of the Baker Street approach.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 7, 2013 13:28:19 GMT
It was the round-about route that GN&C stock used to take to reach Neasden that made me think something was 'in the way' of the Baker Street approach. According to this thread they did go via Baker Street: Drayton Park - Finsbury Park (reverse) - York Road - Moorgate CWL (reverse) - Baker Street - Neasden. (Neasden was the home depot only between closure of the Finsbury Park - Highgate branch in 1970 and transfer of the NCL to BR operation in 1975) |
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Post by bassmike on Feb 7, 2013 14:20:23 GMT
BR (NR) stock has run on the upper and lower circle Mk 1 &Mk 2. Gatwick express + two battery locos and Mk 1 for an Upminster open day several years ago. I don't remember if the !st gen: DMU track recording unit resched the met this way.(it visited Hammersmith met and the East London line amongst other places.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 14:22:05 GMT
I think brigham was referring to the original GN&CR stock, which didn't fit between Baker Street and Finchley Road, and so had to go via the MDR (Acton Town, etc.), rather than the LT Northern Line 1938 tube stock (which did).
But - as the Baker Street-Finchley Road tunnels were fairly famous as being 'narrow' and a restriction - was work done to provide clearance for the A stock, or was the A stock - despite its overall width - narrow where it mattered, and so fitted anyway?
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Post by bassmike on Feb 7, 2013 15:16:06 GMT
Istr that work was done on the BS-Finchley road tunnels in the 70's 0r 80's There was an article in one of the major mags: about it but I dont remember which.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 7, 2013 15:40:49 GMT
the original GN&CR stock, which didn't fit between Baker Street and Finchley Road, and so had to go via the MDR (Acton Town, etc.), rather than the LT Northern Line 1938 tube stock (which did). When and why would the Met want to make such a stock transfer? Until standard stock took over in 1939 the GN&C used a unique electrication system, (separate positive and negative rails outboard of the running rails - a system that could only work on a simple shuttle) so the stock would have been of no use anywhere else. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Feb 7, 2013 21:20:44 GMT
The GN&City stock had to go to Neasden for overhaul.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 7, 2013 22:00:15 GMT
Does anybody here know if any mainline stocks are cleared to run on the upper Circle? Well, I guess the "Chesham Set" is. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2013 16:03:15 GMT
I suspect it has never been gauged, It would be tight because of the car length and the curved platforms, I don't see any other problems though
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