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Post by phillw48 on Jan 24, 2013 0:18:08 GMT
What is the minimum radius required for EFE tube stock motorised using the Tenshodo spud. Also do the EFE plastic coupling bars have to be replaced and if so what would be a suitable replacement.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 24, 2013 8:29:41 GMT
John Polley does them from brass. I use a simple section of wire for all my train couplings.
Not sure about the radius. Think they will not go around small radius bends.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 10:20:54 GMT
You really need to replace all the bogies with Metromodels/John Polley ones along with coupling the bars. The bogies,wheels and coupling bars which the stock come fitted with are not suitable for running.
Minimum radius 2nd radius Hornby at a push remember very small wheels and the sharper the curve the more resistance.
Cutting the hole in the EFF chassis for fitting the motor bogie is tough going I used a diamond cutting disk and safety glasses Make sure the cut out is big enough to allow the bogie to swivel freely however be careful to ensure that enough metal left at the sides to maintain rigidity in the chassis
Good luck with this
XF
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 12:45:11 GMT
"You really need to replace all the bogies with Metromodels/John Polley ones along with coupling the bars"
If you do get the train fitted with Metromodels bogies fitted you will not be disappointed
I had a 59 stock train and with 2 power bogies and the original EFE non powered bogies, it was not able to run as a 4 car set (it ran out of steam!)
So I had them all converted by Metro and WOW now 4 cars no worrys it runs like a dream
Metro also supply new couplings for the cars and do they work?...Yes very well
My layout has a scissors x over made with Peco streamline SL-E92 short points and the EFE runs over it fine
You can see it run over the x-over in my video linked in another post here from me at 2m in
Metro is not cheap but Johns stuff really does work
Hope this info helps
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 24, 2013 13:47:36 GMT
John Polley does them from brass. I use a simple section of wire for all my train couplings. Not sure about the radius. Think they will not go around small radius bends. Oh Metman tut tut! There are no bends on a railway, only curves and straights!
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 24, 2013 15:14:03 GMT
Sorry spent too much time watching F1
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 18:44:10 GMT
I would guess about 3ft radius for EFE. To be realistic, keep the minimum to a 4ft radius curve.
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 24, 2013 19:49:04 GMT
This is for a club project. The motorised EFE model will be on loan and is the personal property of another club member. It has been decided now to stick to a simple 'out and back' shuttle that due to space restraints may even end up as a diorama. I have two as yet unmotorised EFE four car sets so I will bear your advice in mind. Thank you everyone for your help and advice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 20:54:36 GMT
Here is a photo of one of my EFE 1938's snaking crossing Peco 2ft radius points without issues. XF
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 24, 2013 23:04:58 GMT
The Japanese Kato company are introducing a locomotive in HO with a small coreless motor fitted in the bogie(s). This looks very promising for motorising EFE and other EMU stock. The prototype is a JNR Bo-Bo-Bo electric locomotive with the two end bogies powered.
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 24, 2013 23:29:26 GMT
Here's the Kato model >>
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 5:26:22 GMT
The Kato model looks interesting, but isn't the bogie quite high for an EFE car ?
As for the minimum radius, I ran some tests (2-car 1959 stock, motorised and retrofitted with metromodels bogies) on some old, tight points (from a french company called Jouef). I think these are short 22° ones, but the train passes, even though some points make it derail (probably due to the poor quality of the blades, which often stand higher than the rest of the rails).
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Antje
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Post by Antje on Jan 25, 2013 5:47:13 GMT
It depends on how fast you want the EFE trains to run at.
A real life example is the Victoria line, where the curves are very generous to allow faster trains than other tube lines at the time of opening. Meanwhile, the Caxton curve forces the trains to be very slow to avoid derailing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 9:16:49 GMT
Whilst the Kato motor bogie looks a nice piece of kit it looks like it will intrude into the body area. I will stick with Black Beetles which are good work horses.
XF
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 25, 2013 11:06:42 GMT
I wonder if the sides of the Kato bogie are easily removable? Kato N gauge chassis are relatively cheap on e-bay so this might be worthwhile keeping an eye on.
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Post by metroland on Jan 25, 2013 14:59:01 GMT
As others have said, it’s well worth getting the bogies from Metromodels they make a big improvement towards free-running. The coupling bar Metromodels can supply for the the bogies is on the right. If you should need anything longer (you probably won’t) it’s easy to make your own. The Metromodels ones were out of stock at one time, and in any case I wanted to try nose to nose coupling a couple of units. The spindly thing on the left is my version. Just a piece of brass rod and two brass washers. No soldering expertise needed, and you can easily build a few of differing lengths if you need to practice stock formations One thing I did find with Peco Code 100 points (especially electrofrog ones) you need to file down the V a bit. When those tiny little wheels come through the point towards the V they had a tendency to jump on my ones. Only a few thou needs to be filed off – just to make it a bit more like a ramp than a flat end face. Similar to XF, a couple of pics of mine. Departures from the bay platform traverse a small radius turnout then immediately a medium one, then immediately another small one.
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 25, 2013 17:56:23 GMT
Thanks for that Metroland, would you then recommend code 75 rather than code 100 track?
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Post by metroland on Jan 25, 2013 18:18:25 GMT
Thanks for that Metroland, would you then recommend code 75 rather than code 100 track? My track is all code 100 - afraid I've never run any of my stock on code 75 so can't answer.
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Post by greenpark on Jan 28, 2013 21:19:18 GMT
I and Dan Floyd have been working on this problem...
The simple answer is I think we have just about got EFE trains round 14 inch radius curves....
Our suggestions are:
For John Polley's Metromodels 92+95 stock 1. Chop off all the shoes. 2. (With finescale track) Lower the third and fourth rails using oversize holes for the pots 3. File the bottom off the Tenshodo Spuds 4. Add a second Spud to the DM car as this aids traction and pickup, or if not possible, just adding pickups to the bogie does help.
And additionally for EFE 38 stock: 5. Replace the EFE bogies with John Polley's Metromodels bogies. 6. Use longer coupling bars (as the car ends otherwise collide on 14 inch curves) though these look a bit ugly. 7. Hack out the EFE chassis underneath the seats so the John Polley Metromodel bogies will turn a bit further. Ditto for the second Spud. 8. Add weights to all cars.
Hope that helps
If I may, here's a video of my fully automatic Redstone Town layout with Metromodels 92+95 stock (sorry, no 38 stock shown)
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 28, 2013 22:27:18 GMT
Wicked
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2013 12:13:45 GMT
I use code 75 track the only issue you will face of you use Peco 3rd/4th rail is that you will have to lower the conductor rails as they are designed to work with code 100 track.
XF
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