Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 22, 2013 1:04:35 GMT
Where were the trains serviced/stabled when the Met first opened in 1863? Presumably it was a GWR depot as that was the mainline connection? None of today's depots are near the original line, so it can't have been one of them.
I'm sure this is a question to which I should know the answer, but I can't bring it to mind and my search-fu is weak tonight, sorry.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 22, 2013 3:08:20 GMT
Edgware Road? Or was that just the works?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 11:39:38 GMT
Wasn't it borrowed stock to start with. But otherwise I suggest Edgware Road when it got its own trains?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 12:24:59 GMT
I know Edgware road depot was built when the met bought its own stock, I cant help thinking where did they fit everything in the space, locos and stock.
It opened using Great western stock, which I assumed was stabled somewhere near Paddington.
The Met fell out with the GWR, and stopped operating the line from 10th August 1863, and refused to sell the stock and Locos to the Met.
The Line was operated from the next day with locos from the GNR and carriages from the GNR and LNWR, some of this stock remained on the line till October 1864, I wonder where this was serviced and stabled?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 14:38:58 GMT
I think the answer is with difficulty - and I suspect carriages were parked all over the system, wherever a siding could be squeezed in. But the Met's own engine sheds and carriage shop were originally at Edgware Road, squeezed in on both sides of the line East of Upper Lisson Street (the - then - two platform station was to the west), with access in part by a 'traversing table' - there is a 1:1056 1871 plan (amongst others) available at oldmaps.co.uk - enter co-ordinates of 527232 181712 . They were where the space for the Edgware Rd rebuild of the 1920s came from!
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Post by metrailway on Jan 22, 2013 16:34:47 GMT
I suspect the GNR stock was stabled in their own sheds, as they had facilities at King's Cross (GNR) and I think at least one of the tunnels linking the GNR to the Met was completed by the time the Met opened in 1863.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2013 19:43:16 GMT
I Beleive they used to sneal GNR locos in at night down the tunnels from kings cross for trial runs as relations with the GWR fell apart.
Anyone any idea where on the system there were sidings for stock?
Also does anyone know if they turned locos at the termini, or ran bunker first in the other direction?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 22, 2013 23:09:42 GMT
I've never seen any illustrations with bunker-first running, so presumably the engines were turned. It's not something I can recall reading though, so I might be wrong.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 23, 2013 7:12:43 GMT
I've never seen any illustrations with bunker-first running, so presumably the engines were turned. It's not something I can recall reading though, so I might be wrong. Bunker first was the preferred direction because the smoke was behind them.
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 23, 2013 10:07:57 GMT
Tank locomotives are designed to operate in either direction. At Manor House there was a locomotive reversing spur, never a turntable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 21:38:01 GMT
Dont you mean Mansion House?
I wonder what the original layout was like there, and at Paddington and Farringdon
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 23, 2013 23:30:33 GMT
Sorry typo, Mansion House, there is a diagram in John Glover's London Underground book.
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Post by brigham on Jan 24, 2013 9:39:05 GMT
Engines were turned to equalise wheel wear, rather than for running purposes, although that would be after the inner circle was finally completed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 14:03:05 GMT
I've never seen any illustrations with bunker-first running, so presumably the engines were turned. It's not something I can recall reading though, so I might be wrong. Bunker first was the preferred direction because the smoke was behind them. That makes sense. Why they didn't do this recently I don't know considering the driver of Met 1 (as I mentioned somewhere else on DD) complained that he couldn't see where he was going.
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Post by nickf on Jan 24, 2013 15:28:34 GMT
Now this is just a thought, and I stand to be corrected by people who know their stuff, but as the 4-4-0 Beyer Peacock tank locos had bogies at the front, surely that would be the preferred direction of travel, as the bogies help to guide the loco around curves. Running bunker first would not, although it would be perfectly safe given that the correct, but perhaps reduced, speed would be observed.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 24, 2013 15:57:26 GMT
Now this is just a thought, and I stand to be corrected by people who know their stuff, but as the 4-4-0 Beyer Peacock tank locos had bogies at the front, surely that would be the preferred direction of travel, as the bogies help to guide the loco around curves. Running bunker first would not, although it would be perfectly safe given that the correct, but perhaps reduced, speed would be observed. Nice theory but, when it gets to the running railway, people will do what suits them. I am not aware of any turntables on the original Circle route and I don't think there was one at Neasden until about 1909.
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Post by nickf on Jan 24, 2013 16:55:43 GMT
I wonder if they used the triangles at Aldgate and Kensington to turn locos. Probably with the intensive service there wouldn't be enough paths to do it a lot.
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Post by mrjrt on Jan 24, 2013 18:49:42 GMT
Slight tangent, but this discussion has made me wonder...I know the first depots of all the 1900's lines (Golders Green, London Road, etc)...except the Piccadilly. When built it ran from Hammersmith to Finsbury Park...did trains run out of service between Acton or Northfields from 1906 to 1932 when the extension to South Harrow opened?
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Jan 24, 2013 19:54:59 GMT
Initially GNPBR trains were stabled at Lillie Bridge District Rly Depot.
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Post by phillw48 on Jan 24, 2013 19:58:34 GMT
The triangle at Kensington was used to turn locomotives, but only as been stated to even out wheel wear. The sort of speeds the locomotives would normally travel at (25 mph max?) would not make a great deal of difference as to whether the engine was running bunker or smoke box first.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 21:41:28 GMT
Initially GNPBR trains were stabled at Lillie Bridge District Rly Depot. Lillie Bridge stabled Picc Line trains from its opening until March 1933. Working Timetable (WTT) 125 of 13/3/33 was the first not to have Picc trains stabling at Lillie Bridge. Incidentally, a handful of District Railway B Stock trains were also based there when they provided the service between Willesden and Earl's Court in 1914 and until the LNWR got its own stock. Other incidentals saw Picc Line Gate Stock trains go to Ealing Common for heavy repair and the like in the early days, and some Picc cars were known to be stabled/stored in the disused car shed at South Harrow but only until c.1910 (no exact dates - sorry!).
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 24, 2013 23:17:27 GMT
And I read in "Going Green" that District stock was serviced at Northfields in the days when Hounslow was still on the green line.
Surely, except on the Circle, locos spent half their time going bunker first and half chinmey first.
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Post by mrjrt on Jan 25, 2013 1:27:47 GMT
Ah, thanks. I did consider Lille Bridge at first, but it must've dropped out Presumably West Kensington was quite the bottleneck in those days
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