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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 21:18:47 GMT
Hello, As many threads are talking about timetable planning, if any!, I was curious as to who actually plans the timetables for London Underground. Is it down to the individual Line Controllers or a computer program that figures it out with the guidance of someone? I have no idea! Many thanks Toby
Merry XMAS
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 24, 2012 21:35:11 GMT
Hello, As many threads are talking about timetable planning, if any!, I was curious as to who actually plans the timetables for London Underground. Is it down to the individual Line Controllers or a computer program that figures it out with the guidance of someone? I have no idea! Many thanks Toby Merry XMAS The Timetables Section.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2012 21:47:44 GMT
With an input from the relevant "lines", along with (probably) any political influence/interference.
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Post by revupminster on Dec 25, 2012 7:18:24 GMT
The worst thing that happened during the 90's for the east end (Elm Park- Upminster) of the the District Line was the introduction of the monday -friday 5 minute off peak service. This resulted in a greatly reduced layover time at Upminster and as all the peak hour trains ran late the controller would turn the trains short mainly by putting the trains into Barking sidings or use the eastbound main and bay platform at Dagenham East to reverse two trains in a row.
The only trains getting through to Upminster were the depot to depot trains and they never went back west so you could have a half hour gap just as the off peak tickets began and staff never knowing when the next train would arrive westbound.
I do not know if the situation has improved but the train indicators still do not seem to be working Elm Park to Upminster Bridge giving the customer a clue as to when a train might be expected. Still they have waited nearl 80 years for a train indicator.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2012 17:29:38 GMT
With an input from the relevant "lines", along with (probably) any political influence/interference. Not usually any political influence aside from any link to the Tfl Strategy (increasing services for example) and also involves the service planning department who work out customer demand and therefore cost/benefit of any proposed change and also maximum headways and run times available.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2012 21:42:03 GMT
The worst thing that happened during the 90's for the east end (Elm Park- Upminster) of the the District Line was the introduction of the monday -friday 5 minute off peak service. This resulted in a greatly reduced layover time at Upminster and as all the peak hour trains ran late the controller would turn the trains short mainly by putting the trains into Barking sidings or use the eastbound main and bay platform at Dagenham East to reverse two trains in a row. The only trains getting through to Upminster were the depot to depot trains and they never went back west so you could have a half hour gap just as the off peak tickets began and staff never knowing when the next train would arrive westbound. I do not know if the situation has improved but the train indicators still do not seem to be working Elm Park to Upminster Bridge giving the customer a clue as to when a train might be expected. Still they have waited nearl 80 years for a train indicator. The new dot matrix signs are a long way from being comissioned they were only put up for when they did the station refurb. They have no other equipment to interface it to the TD system as yet and I dont see that happening until the re-signalling. In the 90's a certain member of higher management in operational side of the business quoted to myself " No one gives a **** past Barking" well I was shocked as I did live past Barking and I hired my views back which he was a bit stunned. I dont remember too much Dag East reversers but plenty of Barking Sidings running and waiting on a packed eastbound platform at Barking for a train. But I have to say for people past Barking in the last few timetable change, services are improved which is good for everybody ;D ;D ;D
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Post by revupminster on Dec 30, 2012 14:10:32 GMT
Another thing that happened in the 90's although I cannot prove it as it might be an urban legend was the massaging of the train throughput to Upminster by the signalman at Barking and Upminster. The train registers were manually written and I do not know if there was any electronic check.
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Post by JR 15secs on Dec 30, 2012 16:17:09 GMT
With an input from the relevant "lines", along with (probably) any political influence/interference. Not usually any political influence aside from any link to the Tfl Strategy (increasing services for example) and also involves the service planning department who work out customer demand and therefore cost/benefit of any proposed change and also maximum headways and run times available. There is a lot of pressure from various areas has been for a long time the first draft JLE TT had trains running down to Charing Cross at some funny times both in service and empty.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2012 11:51:56 GMT
Not usually any political influence aside from any link to the Tfl Strategy (increasing services for example) and also involves the service planning department who work out customer demand and therefore cost/benefit of any proposed change and also maximum headways and run times available. There is a lot of pressure from various areas has been for a long time the first draft JLE TT had trains running down to Charing Cross at some funny times both in service and empty. That was 12 years ago and the whole JLE was, I accept, politically influenced. I stand by my doubt that TT specs result from much active political influence. No doubt local councils and MPs make requests but not many will end up in changes.
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Post by crusty54 on Jan 1, 2013 14:17:52 GMT
Much of the planning was always the result of annual travel surveys.
Oyster data would be more comprehensive but I don't think it can be used.
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Post by revupminster on Jan 1, 2013 19:08:12 GMT
Much of the planning was always the result of annual travel surveys. Oyster data would be more comprehensive but I don't think it can be used. I think it can. If my oyster show me leaving Tottenham Ct Rd and re-entering at Piccadilly Circus. where have I been?? Could start a quiz. Answer of course visiting St Patrick's RC and St Annes CoE churches!! Thats my story anyway.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 2, 2013 20:00:56 GMT
There are two broad elements to the timetable planning process. One stage is done by the Strategy and Planning section and they will look at the demand for services and any known issues e.g reliability, overcrowding, delays. They will also look at whether planned upgrades works require revised timetables. There is a good deal of consultation at this stage to look at how crewing, maintenance and other related train services (e.g power supply) would be affected by alternative train service levels.
There is no doubt that stakeholder also exert pressure on LU but that is inevitable given the historical context of London's transport being linked to / influenced by politics.
Once viable options have been developed the business case would be put together for each with a view to finding the best option for approval by the relevant LU committee and confirmation that any budgetary changes (capital works, staff budgets, maintenance budgets) are also approved.
Once formal approval has been granted then the detailed timetable and schedules development will happen. If the upgraded timetables need more drivers and train crew accommodation then there might be a much longer lead time involved or possibly an earlier "decision in principle" to allow the works to expand train crew accommodation to run ahead of the detailed timetable and schedule development. The Ops people may also need to recruit and train extra staff so again this is a longer lead time task.
That's my understanding from a relatively small level of involvement on the train side of things before I left LU. I suspect things may have moved on somewhat but I read and signed off enough "Timetable Change Specifications" to know the broad outline. Feel free to provide any corrections if there any errors.
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Post by metrailway on Jan 2, 2013 22:38:19 GMT
Slightly off topic but I noted that for the first time in a long time no special festive period timetable was published to the public. Does anyone know why?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 2, 2013 22:57:32 GMT
Slightly off topic but I noted that for the first time in a long time no special festive period timetable was published to the public. Does anyone know why? I believe the last Christmas Services leaflet was for the ill-fated Christmas 2010 -which didn't happen, services.
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Post by metrailway on Jan 2, 2013 23:10:33 GMT
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