|
Post by charleyfarley on Dec 4, 2012 20:16:34 GMT
Just been reading about a level crossing accident on the Lincoln-Doncaster line, and total strangers online have been responding with the sentence "Thoughts go out ..... " What is it supposed to mean? It's just not the way I personally would express sympathy or sorrow for others.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,776
|
Post by Chris M on Dec 4, 2012 20:44:46 GMT
It means that they're giving their best wishes to (whomever). The full expression is "my thoughts go out to...".
I haven't found an origin yet, but possibly the most famous use (although in a slightly different sense) was on 7 July 1812 by Beethoven, while on bed rest for his health, "Though still in bed, my thoughts go out to you, my Immortal Beloved, now and then joyfully, then sadly, waiting to learn whether or not fate will hear us - I can live only wholly with you or not at all"
You've got me intrigued!
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Dec 4, 2012 23:11:05 GMT
Just been reading about a level crossing accident on the Lincoln-Doncaster line, and total strangers online have been responding with the sentence "Thoughts go out ..... " What is it supposed to mean? It's just not the way I personally would express sympathy or sorrow for others. It's plain enough English in common usage and long heard in the media and seen in print over decades. Where have you been or are you extremely young? As for the sentiment I frequently wonder if it's simply words as the phrase is heard ad infinitum and as common as that well worn phrase 'Oh my God'. As for the incident, it's just another in a long history of such incidents at Lincs level crossings. I've just been watching the pictures on the late night news but didn't pay any attention to the commentary as I was busy so I don't know the reported 'facts' although I did hear at the end of the piece that the death of a 26 year old railworker at Saxilby was being investigated. I don't know if that is related or was simply mentioned as a general reference to rail H&S in the area. Personally 'my thoughts do not go out', I don't think about it at all. I recall speaking to NR official representatives a few years ago after every level crossing in Lincs had been fitted with barriers as a result of the high level of accidents at unmanned and open road/rail crossings. They seemed quite confident that accidents would be reduced and they appear to have been vindicated by a massive reduction in accident statistics since. There have of course still been accidents but they would fall into the 'expendable' percentage in risk assessments, 100% mitigation is impossible without removing the hazard altogether and as we know installing automatic crossings was the cheap alternative to bridges, underpasses or closure.
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Dec 4, 2012 23:11:07 GMT
Just been reading about a level crossing accident on the Lincoln-Doncaster line, and total strangers online have been responding with the sentence "Thoughts go out ..... " What is it supposed to mean? It's just not the way I personally would express sympathy or sorrow for others. Seems you've just come across internet ghouls for the first time. They scour the net for cases of sudden or unexplained death, and also often look for deaths due to long illnesses then post random sympathies to relatives (they've never met) of the deceased (they've never met). The more ghoulish even go into raptures about what a nice person (they'd never met) the deceased was and how they'd be sorely missed. Yet another group of saddos who waste their time on the net - ghoulish AND attention-seeking all at the same time. Makes ordinary folks like you and me sick.........
|
|
SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
|
Post by SE13 on Dec 4, 2012 23:15:15 GMT
I presume the accident to which you refer was the one earlier today where there were no fatalities. At the minute, that is going down as unexplained pending investigation.
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Dec 4, 2012 23:19:07 GMT
and as we know installing automatic crossings was the cheap alternative to bridges, underpasses or closure. Not to the railways it isn't. TBH this is - and always has been - a HIGHWAYS problem not a rail one (unlike Elsenham where clearly the railways were lacking). The rails were there first (for most roads) and it is the council highways who should be acting to safeguard their ratepayers who are roadusers. But they have always pleaded "broke" so the railways have installed gates at their own cost where they saw the risks were greatest. I hate to say it, but IMHO Network Rail have always attempted to aqct in an exemplary manner (even if their asset base was so inaccurate they often didn't have a clue what crossings were actually installed where......). I'm sure many of our journalists would have the trains give way to cars at any crossings if they had the chance.......
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Dec 4, 2012 23:28:51 GMT
Just been reading about a level crossing accident on the Lincoln-Doncaster line, and total strangers online have been responding with the sentence "Thoughts go out ..... " What is it supposed to mean? It's just not the way I personally would express sympathy or sorrow for others. Seems you've just come across internet ghouls for the first time. They scour the net for cases of sudden or unexplained death, and also often look for deaths due to long illnesses then post random sympathies to relatives (they've never met) of the deceased (they've never met). The more ghoulish even go into raptures about what a nice person (they'd never met) the deceased was and how they'd be sorely missed. Yet another group of saddos who waste their time on the net - ghoulish AND attention-seeking all at the same time. Makes ordinary folks like you and me sick......... What can you expect in the ridiculous PC world that we have to live in today. PC folks make me sick, playing the victim at any and every opportunity, whether or not what is said or done is anything to do with them. I see these saddos in exactly the same light, it's simply a different angle. As for the incident, whether it's an accident or not matters little to me as it has nothing to do with me and it's just another statistic. I'm afraid I'm all out of sympathy too, I might have a different point of view if politicians would spend £taxpayers wisely on solid and lasting infrastructure as part of a national transportation plan instead of constantly poking their grubby little fingers in where there is some potential political gain.
|
|
|
Post by phillw48 on Dec 5, 2012 9:02:05 GMT
Sadly the 4 year old girl who was in the car has died.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Dec 5, 2012 9:49:50 GMT
My prayers go out for her. But so many people nowadays do not like to admit so freely to a religious belief, hence thoughts. It's more or less the same thing, IMHO.
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Dec 5, 2012 10:18:56 GMT
and as we know installing automatic crossings was the cheap alternative to bridges, underpasses or closure. Not to the railways it isn't. TBH this is - and always has been - a HIGHWAYS problem not a rail one (unlike Elsenham where clearly the railways were lacking). The rails were there first (for most roads) and it is the council highways who should be acting to safeguard their ratepayers who are roadusers. But they have always pleaded "broke" so the railways have installed gates at their own cost where they saw the risks were greatest. I hate to say it, but IMHO Network Rail have always attempted to aqct in an exemplary manner (even if their asset base was so inaccurate they often didn't have a clue what crossings were actually installed where......). I'm sure many of our journalists would have the trains give way to cars at any crossings if they had the chance....... I'm not so sure that it is correct to suggest that railways were there first, man and his paths from village to village were there long before. Most roads in Lincs remain single track and many main highways are not much wider. I said nothing about who paid for mitigation measures but I believe the records would show (if they could be viewed) that at the end of the day regardless of which authority 'paid' for the work it was all borne by the taxpayer thus my comment of 'cheap' stands. There could be better ways to do things but they will never come to pass so long as decisions are based upon political gain rather than national interest.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,776
|
Post by Chris M on Dec 5, 2012 10:31:40 GMT
Seems you've just come across internet ghouls for the first time. They scour the net for cases of sudden or unexplained death, and also often look for deaths due to long illnesses then post random sympathies to relatives (they've never met) of the deceased (they've never met). The more ghoulish even go into raptures about what a nice person (they'd never met) the deceased was and how they'd be sorely missed. Yet another group of saddos who waste their time on the net - ghoulish AND attention-seeking all at the same time. Makes ordinary folks like you and me sick......... Bordering on the off-topic but you have just reminded me of the Sir William Ormerod hoax. See www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/dec/21/celebrity-victoria-coren if you aren't familiar with it.
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Dec 5, 2012 10:54:58 GMT
My prayers go out for her. But so many people nowadays do not like to admit so freely to a religious belief, hence thoughts. It's more or less the same thing, IMHO. Do they, do they really? Did you actually stop what else you were doing in order to say such prayers for that specific purpose? I would suggest not as I would expect that to be the case for the vast majority. In reality for most it is simply a figure of speech, something politically correct to say in conversation so as not to be seen as disinterested or uncaring. I have no doubt that for some it is a case of 'there but for the grace of God go I' or "I'm so glad that I have never had such happen to my own loved ones" and so there is at least some thought behind the words for those people. The truth is that we no longer live in a religious world, religion is, as it has always been, a convenient peg upon which to hang so much misunderstanding or fear of the otherwise unknown. For some 'sheep' there is no harm in it, for others it is a reason to harm one another but for all believers what is common is faith in the belief. There is little or no democracy in any religion, the members of any and all beliefs being required to blindly follow without thinking. Personally I was brought up 'in the faith', which one is unimportant as each has its own teaching of God and Christian or other values and thus they are much of a muchness but I have always been a thinking man and not a 'sheep' myself. As soon as I was officially an adult I lapsed my faith which had bothered me for many years, had I had no respect for my parents I would have done so as a teenager. Nevertheless I was baptised and confirmed as a Christian and still believe myself to have 'Christian values' in the popular sense, which incidentally has very little to do with Christ these days or indeed the worship or not of a God. Thus my thoughts do not go out, the accident is just another statistic, it's sad for those to whom it matters, it matters not to me as I have no relationship with the parties involved. I have no false sympathy to confer and no prayers to proffer, I am simply an honest man with a mind of my own.
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 5, 2012 11:05:12 GMT
I'm not so sure that it is correct to suggest that railways were there first, man and his paths from village to village were there long before. I'm fairly sure most new roads built across railways, (as distinct from vice versa) use bridges. This exception maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=wallingford&ll=51.591896,-1.031513&spn=0.000213,0.209255&hnear=Wallingford,+Oxfordshire,+United+Kingdom&gl=uk&t=m&z=13&layer=c&cbll=51.591611,-1.138073&panoid=dQvckJjdFZEk4N9fzKdmmQ&cbp=12,293.18,,0,0 is on the Wallingford bypass where the Cholsey and Wallingford steam railway crosses it. When the road was built in 1993 the line had not seen a train for twelve years, and would not for another four.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Dec 5, 2012 11:24:39 GMT
My prayers go out for her. But so many people nowadays do not like to admit so freely to a religious belief, hence thoughts. It's more or less the same thing, IMHO. Do they, do they really? Did you actually stop what else you were doing in order to say such prayers for that specific purpose? I would suggest not as I would expect that to be the case for the vast majority. In reality for most it is simply a figure of speech, something politically correct to say in conversation so as not to be seen as disinterested or uncaring. I have no doubt that for some it is a case of 'there but for the grace of God go I' or "I'm so glad that I have never had such happen to my own loved ones" and so there is at least some thought behind the words for those people. The truth is that we no longer live in a religious world, religion is, as it has always been, a convenient peg upon which to hang so much misunderstanding or fear of the otherwise unknown. For some 'sheep' there is no harm in it, for others it is a reason to harm one another but for all believers what is common is faith in the belief. There is little or no democracy in any religion, the members of any and all beliefs being required to blindly follow without thinking. Personally I was brought up 'in the faith', which one is unimportant as each has its own teaching of God and Christian or other values and thus they are much of a muchness but I have always been a thinking man and not a 'sheep' myself. As soon as I was officially an adult I lapsed my faith which had bothered me for many years, had I had no respect for my parents I would have done so as a teenager. Nevertheless I was baptised and confirmed as a Christian and still believe myself to have 'Christian values' in the popular sense, which incidentally has very little to do with Christ these days or indeed the worship or not of a God. Thus my thoughts do not go out, the accident is just another statistic, it's sad for those to whom it matters, it matters not to me as I have no relationship with the parties involved. I have no false sympathy to confer and no prayers to proffer, I am simply an honest man with a mind of my own. Thank you for proving my point regarding why so many people wish to leave the mention of prayer or religion out of an expression of condolence, sadness, empathy. Debate around the nature of religion is bound to follow, and is that departure really appropriate at that time? There is a time and a place for soapboxes.
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Dec 5, 2012 11:30:23 GMT
Do they, do they really? Did you actually stop what else you were doing in order to say such prayers for that specific purpose? I would suggest not as I would expect that to be the case for the vast majority. In reality for most it is simply a figure of speech, something politically correct to say in conversation so as not to be seen as disinterested or uncaring. I have no doubt that for some it is a case of 'there but for the grace of God go I' or "I'm so glad that I have never had such happen to my own loved ones" and so there is at least some thought behind the words for those people. The truth is that we no longer live in a religious world, religion is, as it has always been, a convenient peg upon which to hang so much misunderstanding or fear of the otherwise unknown. For some 'sheep' there is no harm in it, for others it is a reason to harm one another but for all believers what is common is faith in the belief. There is little or no democracy in any religion, the members of any and all beliefs being required to blindly follow without thinking. Personally I was brought up 'in the faith', which one is unimportant as each has its own teaching of God and Christian or other values and thus they are much of a muchness but I have always been a thinking man and not a 'sheep' myself. As soon as I was officially an adult I lapsed my faith which had bothered me for many years, had I had no respect for my parents I would have done so as a teenager. Nevertheless I was baptised and confirmed as a Christian and still believe myself to have 'Christian values' in the popular sense, which incidentally has very little to do with Christ these days or indeed the worship or not of a God. Thus my thoughts do not go out, the accident is just another statistic, it's sad for those to whom it matters, it matters not to me as I have no relationship with the parties involved. I have no false sympathy to confer and no prayers to proffer, I am simply an honest man with a mind of my own. Thank you for proving my point regarding why so many people wish to leave the mention of prayer or religion out of an expression of condolence, sadness, empathy. Debate around the nature of religion is bound to follow, and is that departure really appropriate at that time? There is a time and a place for soapboxes. Not a soapbox at all, just making the point that condolence, sadness,empathy and expressions thereof are not necessarily what they appear to be. It's not about religion, but it is about dishonesty which permeates society from the very top to the very bottom. As the popular song suggests saying nothing at all is best.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Dec 5, 2012 11:32:05 GMT
Not a soapbox at all, just making the point that condolence, sadness,empathy and expressions thereof are not necessarily what they appear to be. It's not about religion, but it is about dishonesty which permeates society from the very top to the very bottom. As the popular song suggests saying nothing at all is best. Oh dear, that seems to me to be quite a bleak outlook. Made all the more bleak by the grain of truth in it.
|
|
|
Post by londonstuff on Dec 5, 2012 12:18:50 GMT
Hello all. People's differing outlooks on life, however valid, may just be something that we all have to agree to disagree on.
Let's keep it friendly. Have a smiley ;D
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
Post by charleyfarley on Dec 5, 2012 13:14:22 GMT
Forgive me if I appear harsh, uncaring etc. However, in the context of people of whom I have no prior knowledge who have injury or death inflicted on them, whether by natural disaster or accident, I cannot pretend to give them any thought. Although I will probably be something of an emotional wreck when Aretha Franklin pops her clogs, I have no knowledge of her family and so will not feel anything other than my own sadness over the death of someone I have admired for close to 40 years. In the context of an Internet forum, the “my thoughts go out ...” type of posts are totally meaningless to me unless it is an actual member of the forum involved. However, I do not wish to disrespect those who believe making such posts to be worthwhile and appropriate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2012 13:44:04 GMT
My view - This is a somewhat meaningless platitude, to a recipient(s) that the sender does not know and vice-versa
XF
|
|
|
Post by railtechnician on Dec 5, 2012 14:13:55 GMT
Hello all. People's differing outlooks on life, however valid, may just be something that we all have to agree to disagree on.
Let's keep it friendly. Have a smiley ;D
Thanks in advance. I cannot help but comment in the style of the thread "Oh ye of little faith"!
|
|
|
Post by antharro on Dec 5, 2012 15:09:00 GMT
I was raised Christian tho I don't follow any particular religion these days. However, I did know people who would pray for the families of those involved in situations like these even though they didn't know them or didn't have anything to do with them. I was brought up praying for starving people in Ethiopia and wherever else there were troubles.
Whether you agree with people doing this or not (and whether it's prayers or "thoughts") is irrelevant to this thread, the fact is that it happens. So some of the people who are posting as per the OP may well actually mean it. They may also be ghouls as Phil suggested.
Edited to add; I also know people with charleyfarley's view. Personally, I try and empathise a little; we're all human and it doesn't hurt to have some sympathy. But, horses for courses, etc etc.
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Dec 5, 2012 15:46:46 GMT
Thread locked.
You lot know the rules on religion far too well by now, and should know better. Being the season of goodwill I will say no more, but it's a strange coincidence that the last 3 times we've locked on the basis of religion it's been approaching Christmas.
|
|