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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 1:24:23 GMT
The other day while going quite slowly between Kings Cross and Farringdon I noticed some yellow signs alongside the track warning that there might be syringes present in the area.
Seems an odd thing to warn about, anyone know where they'd come from and why there and nowhere else?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 6:29:59 GMT
They are there to warn staff working on the track at night, as there has been an increase of used needles being found in that area, and a few cases of needle stick injuries.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2012 9:36:46 GMT
Why there of all places though? Are there just more junkies in that area throwing them over the wall?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 3, 2012 10:32:30 GMT
It must be because significantly more than usual have been found there. As to why there, well that's a whole different ball game. Having worked with substance misusers for a while now it becomes more apparent day by day that consideration for others comes second to scoring their next hit.
I can give one example of a client: Came to my needle exchange service, nothing to exchange so was provided with an Emergency Pack of two syringes and needles only, this happened three days in quick succession. Each time they were asked what had happened to their previously provided needles and we were told that they'd been left at home and would be brought in tomorrow. On the fourth day the council brought in three bins they had found with our details on and this client's initials. The bins were found in a childrens play area and they were empty, the council then had to close the playground for a week whilst it was searched for any needles.
The client was subsequently charged with a public order offence as a result and was evicted from their social housing. I don't know if they were shooting up in the playground, or if they were just chucking the bins away cos they couldn't be doing with carrying a yellow sharps bin around. All I know is that I subsequently had to justify the existence of the exchange and its ongoing availability.
Gosh, sorry, bit of a rant that. Back to the topic and "why there", its most likely because there's a party housenearby that a group of users frequent.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 3, 2012 12:14:56 GMT
It must be because significantly more than usual have been found there. As to why there, well that's a whole different ball game. Having worked with substance misusers for a while now it becomes more apparent day by day that consideration for others comes second to scoring their next hit. I can give one example of a client: Came to my needle exchange service, nothing to exchange so was provided with an Emergency Pack of two syringes and needles only, this happened three days in quick succession. Each time they were asked what had happened to their previously provided needles and we were told that they'd been left at home and would be brought in tomorrow. On the fourth day the council brought in three bins they had found with our details on and this client's initials. The bins were found in a childrens play area and they were empty, the council then had to close the playground for a week whilst it was searched for any needles. The client was subsequently charged with a public order offence as a result and was evicted from their social housing. I don't know if they were shooting up in the playground, or if they were just chucking the bins away cos they couldn't be doing with carrying a yellow sharps bin around. All I know is that I subsequently had to justify the existence of the exchange and its ongoing availability. Gosh, sorry, bit of a rant that. Back to the topic and "why there", its most likely because there's a party housenearby that a group of users frequent. I have neither time nor sympathy for junkies, they are a menace. We would regularly find sharps where we had to work on or about the track in open sections and in the tunnels and often meet these undesirables on nightshift. I was accosted more than once when having to access both stations and off premises equipment rooms in the wee small hours and it's not pleasant especially when working alone in some of the seedier parts of the capital. What they need is permanent residential supervision and to be kept off the streets to enjoy one another's twilight zones.
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Post by metrailway on Nov 3, 2012 12:17:47 GMT
The area around Kings Cross station did have a reputation for having a drugs problem in the recent past. Although a lot has changed in recent years with regeneration projects and police operations, there are still a higher than average number of drug users in the area, which probably explains why a large number of syringes have been found in that section of the railway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 20:01:53 GMT
I remember when I once took drugs on the tube.
By that I mean I took what I found on the floor, a bag containing a white powder, to a BTP officer on the platform, only to be searched seconds later, questioned for at least 15 minutes and then let go!
(I must have been 16 at the time and just seen a very special Libertines gig nearby).
But I remember being told one of the biggest problems on the tube at night isn't just cable theft and petty vandalism but homeless people looking for a place to sleep and what tends to come with it, drugs drink etc... .
Toby
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 20:48:43 GMT
Junkies are a danger to anyone near them or anyone who goes near anywhere they have infested; we are far to soft in the UK and don't do enough to deal with this problem.
XF
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 19, 2012 21:01:27 GMT
I remember when I once took drugs on the tube. By that I mean I took what I found on the floor, a bag containing a white powder, to a BTP officer on the platform, only to be searched seconds later, questioned for at least 15 minutes and then let go! I see your bag of white powder and raise you a 500ml bottle of methadone mixture 1mg/ml (DTF)! I was working in two different pharmacies one day, for a variety of reasons I had to transfer a bottle of methadone between the two. At the time I didn't have car so was using public transport..... "Have you been in contact with or have any illegal drugs upon your person sir? "Oh yes, this bottle of methadone. Here's a copy of the signed requisition, here's my RPSGB registration certificate and here's the Inter-pharmacy transfer documentation. This is my pharmacy registration number, this is where I've come from and this is where I'm going. Oh, my train's in fifteen minutes, will this take long?" Since then Dr Shipman has had all sorts of effects, which alas means that on occassions patients have to go without medication (and I don't just mean methadone ).
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Post by brigham on Dec 20, 2012 11:48:56 GMT
We reap what we sow. What impression do we give when drug offenders are referred to as 'misusers'? And how, exactly, do we justify an organised facility -with 'clients', no less- to aid and abet them? We're at risk from our own needles here!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 12:57:55 GMT
Throw druggies in a padded cell and let them go cold turkey however monitor them and intervene in extreme cases if life is in danger.
Their actions dumping their detritus anywhere puts others at risk. No methadone prescriptions either as drug taking is a life/death choice not an illness.
XF
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 20, 2012 18:45:25 GMT
Their actions dumping their detritus anywhere puts others at risk. Agreed. There are so many facilities available to safely dispose of paraphrenalia. No methadone prescriptions either as drug taking is a life/death choice not an illness. How about prescriptions for nicotine replacement therapy for those who have chosen to smoke tobacco but have chosen to quit? Throw druggies in a padded cell and let them go cold turkey however monitor them and intervene in extreme cases if life is in danger. The principle used in the health service is one of "harm reduction" and cost effective treatment. According to the December Drug Tariff Methadone is £6.42 for 500ml, roughly 50p a day for most prescriptions. I don't know for definite, but I suspect that a padded cell, monitoring and having an on-call medic is much much more expensive. What I do know is that a 24 hour nicotine patch costs £1.42 per day, surely the real scandal is that the NHS is paying three times as much for to treat those addicted to something you can buy in your local shop than something which has to be obtained illegally.
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Post by railtechnician on Dec 20, 2012 19:58:52 GMT
Their actions dumping their detritus anywhere puts others at risk. Agreed. There are so many facilities available to safely dispose of paraphrenalia. How about prescriptions for nicotine replacement therapy for those who have chosen to smoke tobacco but have chosen to quit? Throw druggies in a padded cell and let them go cold turkey however monitor them and intervene in extreme cases if life is in danger. The principle used in the health service is one of "harm reduction" and cost effective treatment. According to the December Drug Tariff Methadone is £6.42 for 500ml, roughly 50p a day for most prescriptions. I don't know for definite, but I suspect that a padded cell, monitoring and having an on-call medic is much much more expensive. What I do know is that a 24 hour nicotine patch costs £1.42 per day, surely the real scandal is that the NHS is paying three times as much for to treat those addicted to something you can buy in your local shop than something which has to be obtained illegally. As an ex-smoker myself (40 a day for 25 years) I tried several times to give up but failed dismally as those around me who were smokers continually taunted me by lighting up and offering me a butt. My solution to a problem of my own making was to take a month off work and lock myself in my own house incommunicado without smoking materials for the whole month. It was not easy and after three weeks without a drag I had the worst craving ever but my willpower prevailed. Returning to work after my 'holiday' I was faced with the usual "you'll never last, stop trying, have a fag, go on". However, I persevered and have lasted the course, now a few days short of 16 years smoke free apart from one night in a pub in Hammersmith a year after I had given up when at a celebration I smoked several cigarettes while downing a lot of beer, fortunately a very sore throat and a hangover the next day was enough to keep me smoke free ever since! Cold turkey is IMO the only way to give up smoking but the danger of a relapse is ever present, even after 10 years of abstinence I still had that occasional craving for a cigarette but never gave in. I haven't had such a craving for the last few years but I like to steer clear of smokers AFAIP nowadays. I don't believe in feeding substitutes to ex-smokers or drug addicts, I see cold turkey as the right cure and isolation as the pathway to a cure. I don't think too much should be spent on monitoring isolated addicts, after the first two or three weeks most of the 'climbing the walls' withdrawal symptons ought to be relatively low for those who really want to quit, for the rest I would expect them to tough it out as society does not owe them a life, unless they would be willing to 'cough up' for private treatment and aid the NHS to provide care for the genuinely sick. I have to say that I see alcoholics in the same way. If the politicians had any guts they would ban the manufacture and sale of cigarettes except for export and confiscate any found upon persons. Perhaps all alcohol for human consumption needs to be 'watered', putting up the prices will do nothing to deter the determined imbiber. I have always liked a drink myself and still do but I am all but teetotal these days, I have four bottles of beer in for Christmas, the first alcohol I will drink since the four bottles I bought to celebrate last Christmas. I don't need it and I don't crave it (there was a time but it was more than 20 years ago) and in all honesty I have better things to spend money upon.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2012 21:49:44 GMT
I gave up smoking (similar quantities to RT) because I was too damned lazy to go to the shops one Saturday morning having run out the previous evening. Apart from one blazing row with my wife later that day, I experienced virtually no withdrawal symptoms and by Monday morning I was able to sit next to the others at work in the smoking area with no problems at all. And that's supposed to be the most addictive substance known to man!
In fact I actually still like the smell of cigarettes and cigars but have no desire to ever smoke one again.
I'm not entirely convinced on the ethics of banning tobacco here but allowing its export to foreigners RT.........peddling death to the 3rd world doesn't look good in the press! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by brigham on Dec 21, 2012 11:04:54 GMT
Phasing out cigarettes would deal the fatal blow to smoking as a mainstream activity. Existing smokers should register in order to be allowed to buy, and quantities be monitored and controlled if necessary.
A date could be set, say in two years time, after which no new registrations would be accepted, thus effectively ending the availability of cigarettes to newcomers.
Retail outlets could be strictly licenced, and would be required to stock safer substitute products, at reasonable prices, as and when such become available. No such substitutes should be available via prescription. If you can afford cigarettes, you can easily afford the alternative.
People receiving benefit could have their entitlement reduced in line with quantity of tobacco bought, giving added incentive to quit or switch.
The asbestos industry was virtually destroyed within two years, despite the product being less harmful and far more useful than tobacco. The smoking industry's continuing existence is a shameful example of corporate greed and political collusion taking precedence over the elimination of human suffering.
It is utterly beyond my comprehension how anyone can even think of attempting to justify the injecting of heroin. The message we must give, if we are ever to be free of this scourge, must be unequivocal. 'Don't Take Heroin'.
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 21, 2012 11:40:10 GMT
It is utterly beyond my comprehension how anyone can even think of attempting to justify the injecting of heroin. The message we must give, if we are ever to be free of this scourge, must be unequivocal. 'Don't Take Heroin'. Is it beyond your ken because you've never taken it yourself or that you've never worked with addicts? However, we are wandering slightly off-topic...
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Post by brigham on Dec 21, 2012 13:13:13 GMT
It is utterly beyond my comprehension how anyone can even think of attempting to justify the injecting of heroin. The message we must give, if we are ever to be free of this scourge, must be unequivocal. 'Don't Take Heroin'. Is it beyond your ken because you've never taken it yourself or that you've never worked with addicts? However, we are wandering slightly off-topic... Unbelieveable!
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 21, 2012 13:21:46 GMT
I don't want to get into a 'flame war' with you, but what is 'unbelieveable' about the question? In order to hold valid opinions on any subject, surely you need to have had first-hand exposure to the problem/addicts rather than basing it on research papers or journalism?
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Post by brigham on Dec 21, 2012 13:41:32 GMT
I don't want to get into a 'flame war' with you, but what is 'unbelieveable' about the question? In order to hold valid opinions on any subject, surely you need to have had first-hand exposure to the problem/addicts rather than basing it on research papers or journalism? To me, it's 'unbelieveable' that anyone should think heroin addiction is anything but a blight on humanity; but I suppose even smallpox must have its supporters somewhere.
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 21, 2012 13:45:37 GMT
To me, it's 'unbelieveable' that anyone should think heroin addiction is anything but a blight on humanity; but I suppose even smallpox must have its supporters somewhere. Fair enough, but I have not made any judgements of value about heroin addiction and nor would I in this location, even though I am not stochastically neutral.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 13:58:24 GMT
Phasing out cigarettes would deal the fatal blow to smoking as a mainstream activity. Existing smokers should register in order to be allowed to buy, and quantities be monitored and controlled if necessary. A date could be set, say in two years time, after which no new registrations would be accepted, thus effectively ending the availability of cigarettes to newcomers. Retail outlets could be strictly licenced, and would be required to stock safer substitute products, at reasonable prices, as and when such become available. No such substitutes should be available via prescription. If you can afford cigarettes, you can easily afford the alternative. People receiving benefit could have their entitlement reduced in line with quantity of tobacco bought, giving added incentive to quit or switch. The asbestos industry was virtually destroyed within two years, despite the product being less harmful and far more useful than tobacco. The smoking industry's continuing existence is a shameful example of corporate greed and political collusion taking precedence over the elimination of human suffering. It is utterly beyond my comprehension how anyone can even think of attempting to justify the injecting of heroin. The message we must give, if we are ever to be free of this scourge, must be unequivocal. 'Don't Take Heroin'. It's beyond mine as well but despite heroin being an illegal substance it doesn't stop people dealing or taking it. I would have thought making smoking illegal will achieve the same result. As you may be aware, the smuggling and trade of tobacco into the UK is of epic proportions already and rising. The crime involved spreads to extreme violence as well. As long as one doesn't have to passively smoke the results against one's will, I don't see what the problem is. It's somebody else's life to cut short by their choice and none of my business. I don't get the asbestos analogy.
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Post by rincew1nd on Dec 21, 2012 19:37:14 GMT
To me, it's 'unbelieveable' that anyone should think heroin addiction is anything but a blight on humanity... Substance addiction and substance mis-use are completely different things. I agree that addiction is a problem.
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Post by brigham on Dec 22, 2012 9:19:40 GMT
'Two or three shoot-ups, two or three times a week...'
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