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Post by jamesb on Sept 24, 2012 11:43:39 GMT
I have observed that central line trains frequently stop short of the stopping board completely (although only slightly) yet the doors still open.
How does the driver guarantee that the train is properly birthed in the platform without using the stopping board as a reference?
Is the CSDE equipment considered to override the stopping board if it permits the doors to be opened even if the train isn't lined up with the stopping board?
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Colin
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My preserved fire engine!
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Post by Colin on Sept 24, 2012 13:18:51 GMT
Although I'm not a Central line driver, I can say that the CSDE loops are fixed in position and the only effect they have is to allow the train doors to be opened on the correct side - I'm not so sure that the Central has conventional CSDE equipment though; AFAIA they use a box at each station which downloads & uploads information.
Are you also aware that trains on the Central line drive themselves automatically?!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 14:58:41 GMT
ATO will almost always land on the PAC no matter where the stopping boards are and with some stations they are not in the right place. When you are in Coded Manual it becomes a case of knowing which ones you have to stop at short and which ones you have to stop at late. Route knowledge.
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Post by jamesb on Sept 24, 2012 14:59:53 GMT
Although I'm not a Central line driver, I can say that the CSDE loops are fixed in position and the only effect they have is to allow the train doors to be opened on the correct side - I'm not so sure that the Central has conventional CSDE equipment though; AFAIA they use a box at each station which downloads & uploads information. Are you also aware that trains on the Central line drive themselves automatically?!! I know but I wondered what happens in the situation like today in wet weather where (much less frequently then in the past) the train stops short of the stopping mark (but only very slightly short) - in that situation how does the driver know if the train has fully berthed in the platform if the stopping boards are not used when in ATO. |
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Post by jamesb on Sept 24, 2012 15:00:53 GMT
ATO will almost always land on the PAC no matter where the stopping boards are and with some stations they are not in the right place. When you are in Coded Manual it becomes a case of knowing which ones you have to stop at short and which ones you have to stop at late. Route knowledge. But that's not very failsafe... what happens if you have a moment of madness and forget which ones you have to stop short / late and open the doors when the last set of doors aren't safely in the platform? |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Sept 24, 2012 16:21:35 GMT
ATO will almost always land on the PAC no matter where the stopping boards are and with some stations they are not in the right place. When you are in Coded Manual it becomes a case of knowing which ones you have to stop at short and which ones you have to stop at late. Route knowledge. But that's not very failsafe... what happens if you have a moment of madness and forget which ones you have to stop short / late and open the doors when the last set of doors aren't safely in the platform? [uncertain]Then the CSDE prevents them from opening[/uncertain] |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 24, 2012 19:35:09 GMT
But that's not very failsafe... what happens if you have a moment of madness and forget which ones you have to stop short / late and open the doors when the last set of doors aren't safely in the platform? Manually driven lines have the same issue (stopping marks are only used as a guide), so local knowledge applies on our lines also. Not everything on LU is screwed down tight! |
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Post by causton on Sept 24, 2012 21:48:33 GMT
Is this a different line/system I'm thinking of or don't you have to look at the stop marker through a special window that isn't fully at 90 degrees, so it will look like it's a little off to the casual observer?
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Post by superteacher on Sept 25, 2012 19:41:26 GMT
ATO will almost always land on the PAC no matter where the stopping boards are and with some stations they are not in the right place. When you are in Coded Manual it becomes a case of knowing which ones you have to stop at short and which ones you have to stop at late. Route knowledge. But that's not very failsafe... what happens if you have a moment of madness and forget which ones you have to stop short / late and open the doors when the last set of doors aren't safely in the platform? The difference in stopping marks from station to station isn't great enough to make a driver unsure of whether the train is fully in the station! We're talking probably a metre or so. If they are more than a metre short, then they know that the train has stopped short and will draw the train up to the mark in coded manual. If the train has overshot, similarly they will know how much they've overshot by and if it's enough that the first set of doors is outside the platform limits, the train will continue to the next station (after suitable apologies from the driver). And if they really do try to open the doors when the train is not berthed, the CSDE won't allow it, which will be an indication to the driver that they are not in the correct position. Drivers know their route very well. and will be very aware of all of the above. |
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Post by jamesb on Sept 25, 2012 20:01:57 GMT
But that's not very failsafe... what happens if you have a moment of madness and forget which ones you have to stop short / late and open the doors when the last set of doors aren't safely in the platform? The difference in stopping marks from station to station isn't great enough to make a driver unsure of whether the train is fully in the station! We're talking probably a metre or so. If they are more than a metre short, then they know that the train has stopped short and will draw the train up to the mark in coded manual. If the train has overshot, similarly they will know how much they've overshot by and if if's enough that the first set of doors is outside the platform limits, the train will continue to the next station (after suitable apologies from the driver). And if they really do try to open the doors when the train is berthed, the CSDE won't allow it, which will be an indication to the driver that they are not in the correct position. Drivers know their route very well. and will be very aware of all of the above. That's refreshing to hear... And just goes to prove how important us humans are in the automatic world we are all living in! |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 25, 2012 20:14:38 GMT
The difference in stopping marks from station to station isn't great enough to make a driver unsure of whether the train is fully in the station! We're talking probably a metre or so. If they are more than a metre short, then they know that the train has stopped short and will draw the train up to the mark in coded manual. If the train has overshot, similarly they will know how much they've overshot by and if if's enough that the first set of doors is outside the platform limits, the train will continue to the next station (after suitable apologies from the driver). And if they really do try to open the doors when the train is berthed, the CSDE won't allow it, which will be an indication to the driver that they are not in the correct position. Drivers know their route very well. and will be very aware of all of the above. That's refreshing to hear... And just goes to prove how important us humans are in the automatic world we are all living in! It does make me wonder how such issues will be dealt with if trains become driverless . . .  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 21:09:27 GMT
It does make me wonder how such issues will be dealt with if trains become driverless . . . Easily - the driverless train won't be looking at the stopping board that is in the wrong place!  |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 25, 2012 21:11:38 GMT
It does make me wonder how such issues will be dealt with if trains become driverless . . . Easily - the driverless train won't be looking at the stopping board that is in the wrong place! Fair enough - but what if there was a loss of codes and the train pulled up short? I'm not sure how often it happens on the Vic, but it happens quite a lot on the Central in the wet! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 21:20:43 GMT
Easily - the driverless train won't be looking at the stopping board that is in the wrong place! Fair enough - but what if there was a loss of codes and the train pulled up short? I'm not sure how often it happens on the Vic, but it happens quite a lot on the Central in the wet! Then the system won't open the doors and there would be delays whilst someone got to the train to pull it up. Don't think you'd get such frequent loss of code with a modern system on a modern train - I suspect the issue with the Central Line is that wheel slide loses the ATO's location. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 25, 2012 21:23:52 GMT
Fair enough - but what if there was a loss of codes and the train pulled up short? I'm not sure how often it happens on the Vic, but it happens quite a lot on the Central in the wet! Then the system won't open the doors and there would be delays whilst someone got to the train to pull it up. Don't think you'd get such frequent loss of code with a modern system on a modern train - I suspect the issue with the Central Line is that wheel slide loses the ATO's location. Yes it mainly seems to happen in open air sections, but not exclusively so. As you know, on the Vic the main issue was overrunning with the the 67 stock, but I daresay that overruns and underruns are very rare now. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 22:15:27 GMT
Then the system won't open the doors and there would be delays whilst someone got to the train to pull it up. Don't think you'd get such frequent loss of code with a modern system on a modern train - I suspect the issue with the Central Line is that wheel slide loses the ATO's location. Yes it mainly seems to happen in open air sections, but not exclusively so. As you know, on the Vic the main issue was overrunning with the the 67 stock, but I daresay that overruns and underruns are very rare now. Yes much better now. Took a while to tune a few stops but they are all quite accurate and repeatable. Be interesting to see how the S Stock performs once thats got CBTC on. |
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