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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 16:43:01 GMT
Having boarded a Barking train at Royal Oak this morning, I was intrigued by the fact that the interchange for stations to High Street and Wimbledon is announced to be at Edgware Road.
I can't quite work out how this can be better than changing at Paddington, but the following possibilities come to mind:
(1) No Londoner would use the "handle of the teapot" to travel from the stations it serves to Fulham and Wimbledon, so the announcement is aimed at grockles who can't be expected to find their way from the Bishops Road to the Praed Street platforms at Paddington.
(2) Which interchange is quicker depends where you are on the H&C train. At the front it's Paddington, at the rear Edgware Road. But you can't put that in an announcement.
(3) Of course Paddington is quicker, but Bishops Road platforms are so dangerous LUL will do everything it can to keep people away from them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 16:45:52 GMT
Its much quicker to change at Edgware Road than at Paddington
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2012 17:57:46 GMT
Its much quicker to change at Edgware Road than at Paddington Especially with the new Pad H&C layout! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 19, 2012 18:16:21 GMT
50% of the time the interchange is across the platform. At worst you have to cross the bridge - and there's one at each end of the platform so it doesn't matter which car you're in!
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Sept 19, 2012 21:27:12 GMT
Network Rail probably wouldn't appreciate LUL pushing interchanging traffic through their station either
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2012 18:36:40 GMT
If you guys are right, then my next question is: why is interchange shown at both Paddington and Edgware Road on the tube map?
Wouldn't it be more accurate to rename the SSL stations as Praed Street (for Paddington) and Bishops Road (for Paddington) and leave only the Bakerloo as Paddington?
(1) and (2) in my original post were not meant seriously but this suggestion is - the opening of CrossRail would seem to be the obvious time to make the change.
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Post by andypurk on Sept 20, 2012 23:23:01 GMT
If you guys are right, then my next question is: why is interchange shown at both Paddington and Edgware Road on the tube map? Because both the subsurface routes interchange with the Bakerloo line at Paddington as well? |
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 21, 2012 12:12:32 GMT
the current version of the Tube map presents a poor view of the interchange arrangement.
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 21, 2012 12:18:58 GMT
the current version of the Tube map presents a poor view of the interchange arrangement.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 21, 2012 12:54:16 GMT
There are only 2 LU stations at Paddington. Praed Street is served by the Bakerloo, District and Circle to Edgware Road only and via High Street Kensington. Bishops Road is served by the Hammersmith & City and Circle lines via Royal Oak and via Baker Street. Both stations are equally good for interchange with National Rail, unless you need the ticket office or services in The Lawn, for which Praed Street is much better located. Bishops Road is obviously better located for the adjacent suburban platforms than Praed Street. I haven't used Bishops Road in rush hour recently, but the new ticket hall [1] should make the platforms much safer than they were. If you were to rename the stations then you'd need to decide which was the main one. Neither are more integrated into the mainline station than the other, and crossrail will only increase the integration of the Bishops Road platform area. Before the t-cup, Praed Street would clearly be the more major of the two, but now and even more so when Crossrail arrives, the distinction is much less. Ignoring the mainline station, Praed Street is the better for the local commercial centre, but Bishops Road is better for the big development by the canal (the name of which escapes me currently). I don't think the answer is to rename stations, but make the tube map better reflect the actual layout at Paddington. The 2002 map showed the Paddington area much better than today's version. It would need some modification for today, given the change in the Circle line arrangements, but there should still be space for the Bakerloo to run "south" of the SSR. This would mean extending the reach of Baker Street station or putting a kink in the Bakerloo Line, neither perfect but both I suspect more user friendly for the traveller. [1] There isn't, and afaik, there are no plans for, a ticket office here, so whether it should be called a "ticket hall" or something like a "gateline hall" I'm not sure. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 18:05:11 GMT
If you were to rename the stations then you'd need to decide which was the main one.
Sorry, Chris, I don't see why? Many thanks for the link to the 2002 map, though, which offers a solution along the lines I suggested in my previous post (with the SSL stations re-named and the interchange with Crossrail instead of - or as well as - Praed Street).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 18:37:23 GMT
[1] There isn't, and afaik, there are no plans for, a ticket office here, so whether it should be called a "ticket hall" or something like a "gateline hall" I'm not sure. There are (annoyingly) only 3 card-only ticket machines here at the moment, but the signs say there will be a full set eventually. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 21, 2012 21:35:45 GMT
I don't see any real difference between the siiuation at paddington and that at Euston, Fenchurch Street or waterloo east, where there are two separate Underground stations serving the main lne station. The only differnce at padd is that they both have the same name
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 21, 2012 22:30:37 GMT
I don't see any real difference between the siiuation at paddington and that at Euston, Fenchurch Street or waterloo east, where there are two separate Underground stations serving the main lne station. The only differnce at padd is that they both have the same name Isn't that the point of the discussion (my bold)? |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 22, 2012 1:18:02 GMT
There is a reason they both have the same name when the others don't though:
At Paddington, both LU stations are directly integrated with one NR station.
At Waterloo, there is one LU station (Waterloo) integrated into one NR station (Waterloo), and a second LU station (Southwark) (semi-)integrated with a second NR station (Waterloo East).
At Euston, there is one LU station (Euston) integrated into one NR staion (Euston) and a second LU station (Euston Square) a short walk away.
At Fenchurch street there is one NR sation (Fenchurch Street) a short walk away from two LU stations (Tower Hill and Aldgate) and one DLR station (Tower Gateway).
The closest comparison to Paddington is Stratford where there one DLR station (platforms 4a and 4b) and one DLR and Underground station (platforms 13-17) integrated into 1 NR, Underground and Overground station (platforms 1-3 and 5-12). All three are called "Stratford". The JLE/Stratford International station is the equivalent of Bishops Road - part of the main station building and fully part of it; Platforms 4a/4b form the equivalent of Praed Street - separate but directly attached (just above ground rather than below it).
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 22, 2012 7:29:01 GMT
Agreed there is a spectrum of how well-integrated the separate undergrond stations are to the main line - one could add Embankment (for Charing Cross), Baker Street/Marylebone (many users for the SSL walk round the corner rather than use the bakerloo for one stop), or the whole Kings Cross St Pancras complex.
Perhaps the best analogy is Waterloo East: served by two tube stations (Waterloo and Southwark) - which you use depends on which line you want. But unlike Paddington they have different names. (Admittedly it would be confusing to have two consecutive stations on the Jubilee Line with the same name, but with the T-Cup there are now effectively two non-consecutive stations on the Circle called Paddington
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 22, 2012 8:35:19 GMT
with the T-Cup there are now effectively two non-consecutive stations on the Circle called Paddington Agree! Which is why the use of C Stock blinds saying: Hammersmith
via PaddingtonIS confusing! |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 22, 2012 21:12:27 GMT
While Paddington is the major travel objective between Edgware Road and Hammersmith, "via Shepherd's Bush" (or anything else) would have been much better.
Regarding the non-consecutive stations, it's not unique - the Tyne and Wear Metro yellow line runs through Monument twice (and one of those is one stop from the terminus). However that is unquestionably the same station with the platforms running at approximately right angles one above the other.
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Post by causton on Sept 22, 2012 21:22:50 GMT
While Paddington is the major travel objective between Edgware Road and Hammersmith, "via Shepherd's Bush" (or anything else) would have been much better. But it's actually Shepherd's Bush Market, which is a different station quite a bit of a walk away*  *if you're running for a Southern train from Shepherd's Bush Overground that is ...so Shepherd's Bush Market wouldn't legibly fit on to the blind. Maybe via Wood Lane, but none of those stations stand out as being very popular. |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 23, 2012 3:07:24 GMT
How popular are Newbury Park and Hainault relative to the other stations on the loop and to intermediate stations on the Hammersmith branch?
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Post by superteacher on Sept 23, 2012 20:41:00 GMT
The main reason for "Hammersmith via Paddington" is to assist passengers on the District line between Barking and Aldgate East. There are two routes to Hammersmith - District line via Embankment and Hammersmith and City Line - via Paddington. The train describers, however, show "via Kings Cross" and for many years the train blinds showed "via Shepherd's Bush."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2012 20:53:02 GMT
The situation at Waterloo is actually a little more complicated than that Chris M. The Jubilee line station at Waterloo is on the opposite side of the National Rail station to the other lines, further complicating the issue!
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