|
|
Post by tubeprune on Jan 22, 2013 19:10:23 GMT
Let me take an educated guess. The staff position on the H&C is always close to the limits in terms of having enough crews for trains. If you take people away for training on the new stock, you will get cancellations so they won't do too many at once. Also, there are not many duties that you can easily match crews to new trains. So , it's all going to be a bit of a muddle.
The other factor is that nowadays, drivers tend to want a lot more "training" than used to be the case. You have to get trained on the technicalities of the new stock. I would say a week would be more than enough for a qualified driver. Then they would need some practice driving the stock - a couple of days should be plenty. So that's 7 working days training. Knowing how LU works, they probably actually get 10 days.
Say they have 161 drivers for the H&C & Circle (my own guesstimate), so they have to provide 1610 training days.
Now, how about the payment for all the trains standing around doing nothing? When a train is delivered, the manufacturer wants to get paid, doesn't he? So LU must have paid for the trains and they are still running the old stock, so they have a lot more stock on the books than they need.
If I was to speculate further, I might be tempted to think that LU did a deal with Bombardier so that the defects on the 37 trains that are having to go back to Derby are being paid for by LU not accepting the trains that have been finished and are stored at old Dalby etc. I just hope they don't leave them there too long, otherwise they will get infested with insects and mice, all this cold weather will cause lots of condensation and things will go mouldy.
Hey Ho!
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 22, 2013 20:08:15 GMT
Guessing here, but as May 18th is the expiry date of the current National Rail timetable, would its significance to this discussion be that it is also the expiry date of the current TfL working timetable, and thus the next opportunity to add more S7 schedules? |
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on Jan 23, 2013 0:20:27 GMT
That doesn't seem like the best trade off...
A pity Met drivers aren't trained on the C stock, or on the H&C route. The good S7 stock could come to London, displacing the C stock from the H&C onto the Met running in 8car formation, with the defective S8 stock on the Met returning to Derby quicker. And then take whatever financial penalties were due from Bombardier for supplying the duff gear.
Or couldn't they just try and cram more S7's here and there on the tube. Wrap them in tarpaulins and put them in South Harrow, or Wembley Park, West Ruislip, Ealing Broadway, etc, if its only short term. Just seems a bit lazy to trade it off when a bit of proactive latteral thinking could surely deliver a better result for taxpayers?
(Forgive the less-than-formal language, hopefully the point was still clear though)
|
|
|
|
Post by djlynch on Jan 23, 2013 4:02:24 GMT
Does anyone know what the reasons are for specifying in the WTT that only two trains that can possibly be run as S stock?
I imagine that makes it much easier for staff scheduling purposes to know how many S-stock trained drivers they need at a minimum at any given time and which duties must be given to trained drivers, but specifying it at the WTT level seems to me as an outsider to be locking the number in for an unnecessarily long time when there should be a way to add other trains as the stock and drivers become available.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jan 23, 2013 4:40:54 GMT
Amendments can be published in the Traffic Circular during the currency of the WTT.
Two paths are (if you like) the starting point.
There have been many cases over the past century at least where there are permanent amendments published via the TC or antecedents.
|
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on Jan 23, 2013 6:07:28 GMT
Isn't the problem that there is not enough space/resources to commission more S7s at Neasden at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Jan 23, 2013 7:03:38 GMT
My speculation is just that - speculation. Since we don't have any official explanation as to why there is £70million+ of hardware sitting around doing nothing and we probably wouldn't believe it even if there was one, we can let the rumour mill grind away. My understanding of the infrastructure situation is that the H&C is ready for the new trains but the idea that Neasden isn't capable of commissioning more new trains is a possibility. Perhaps the building works there are encroaching on the new stock schedule.
|
|
|
|
Post by JR 15secs on Jan 23, 2013 14:57:52 GMT
Say they have 161 drivers for the H&C & Circle (my own guesstimate), so they have to provide 1610 training days. Hey Ho! The last time I was aware of the number of T/Ops it was Barking M-F 34 dutys Edgware Rd M-F 62 dutys Hammersmith M-F 49 dutys Must have altered now but which way? |
|
class411
Operations: Normal
Posts: 2,743
|
Post by class411 on Jan 25, 2013 11:49:33 GMT
The speculation that training is the problem makes a certain amount of sense but, surely, they are not going to train all the drivers the week before the 28th May.
Would we not expect to see a steady stream of deliveries of the already completed stock as more drivers complete their cross training?
|
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Jan 25, 2013 15:17:40 GMT
There is still an S7 in Upminster depot, must have been there at least 5/6 weeks. It is all lit during day but does it move between say the depot and Upminster platform?
|
|
towerman
My status is now now widower
Posts: 2,968
|
Post by towerman on Jan 25, 2013 16:47:48 GMT
When the S stock is eventually operating on the H&C and District Lines,will they have their own dedicated trains or will they operate between both lines?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 25, 2013 17:16:29 GMT
When the S stock is eventually operating on the H&C and District Lines,will they have their own dedicated trains or will they operate between both lines? The trains will be completely mixed. Hammersmith will be reduced to sidings status and maintenance will be undertaken at Ealing Common and Upminster for all S7s. |
|
|
|
Post by Deep Level on Jan 25, 2013 17:25:04 GMT
Could this mean late night H&C services to Upminster? Or will all H&C trains continue to be stored at Hammersmith and Barking only going to Upminster for maintenance.
|
|
|
|
Post by revupminster on Jan 25, 2013 17:48:57 GMT
When one train of C stock were timetabled to Upminster, for maintenance, in the 90s they were in passenger service until the first ones hit the platform edge and it lasted a week. Should not be any problem with S stock
|
|
|
|
Post by Deep Level on Jan 25, 2013 18:04:33 GMT
I'm wondering how long it will be until the Circle and H&C lines are just run as one line, it makes sense to me. It can be one line with 2 branches and if the Metropolitan Line extension goes ahead the H&C will just follow the route or the Circle anyway so can just become one line with extra trains running between Hammersmith and Moorgate, Aldgate and High Street Kensington.
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,758
|
Post by Chris M on Jan 26, 2013 14:21:46 GMT
Changing two lines into one line with two branches is the exact opposite of the increased segregation (at the expense of flexibility) that LU seem to be seeking everywhere else on the network.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 13:09:01 GMT
Hi on railUK forums there was a rumour that S7s will begin service on the circle line in May (as part of the timetable change). Can anyone confirm  |
|
|
|
Post by Alight on Jan 27, 2013 13:26:05 GMT
I'm wondering how long it will be until the Circle and H&C lines are just run as one line, it makes sense to me. It can be one line with 2 branches and if the Metropolitan Line extension goes ahead the H&C will just follow the route or the Circle anyway so can just become one line with extra trains running between Hammersmith and Moorgate, Aldgate and High Street Kensington. I couldn't agree more. The H&C line just seems so redundant, with its only independent section being between Liverpool Street and Aldgate East. Yes LU want segregation but let's face it the SSL District and Metropolitan lines are far more complex than the Circle & Hammersmith ever will be if we split them. |
|
|
|
Post by crusty54 on Jan 27, 2013 13:43:12 GMT
The original idea to improve the Circle line service was for a train to start at Hammersmith then do a loop of the Circle Line before heading for Barking and vice versa.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 27, 2013 15:31:33 GMT
Hi on railUK forums there was a rumour that S7s will begin service on the circle line in May (as part of the timetable change). Can anyone confirm That is the current plan for the introduction of WTT29 as the infrastructure works on the south side of the Circle should be finished. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 17:28:53 GMT
Thank you!
Also an S7 has ventured to Ealing Broadway yesterday and testing on the south side of the circle line is supposed to happen during the closure on Easter Monday
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 21:10:25 GMT
Thank you! Also an S7 has ventured to Ealing Broadway yesterday and testing on the south side of the circle line is supposed to happen during the closure on Easter Monday Ooooo that's my home station  Any pictures anywhere? Edit: Forget that - found some: www.flickr.com/photos/42537798@N02/8420513222/ |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 21:27:01 GMT
Some of this work must be to do with altering the OPO equipment for the C stock too, I know along the H&C they've replaced the older bulky grey stuff with new flatscreen monitors as the old stuff was getting in the way of a fully berthed S7. I presume more of this work needs to take place on the southern half of the Circle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 22:17:38 GMT
|
|
Any pictures anywhere?
