Delays in introduction of S Stock

The C stock are not as roomy as a D nor do they do the job as half as good. The C stock has been a under performer in regards to ride, comfort and reliability. A contemporary to the C stock the 1972 MKII on the the line that time forgot is poles apart and is a real pleasure to travel on. Every time I take a Bakerloo train, even though there is no replacement yet on its way, I have a sense of making sure of appreciating every moment of it as they won't be there forever.

I am not saying that LU made the wrong decision or the reasons in replacing the A stock first, however my own choice, forsaking financial constraints and concentrating on maximum benefit, would had been to keep the older A stock going a little longer, replaced the C stock first, then the A stock and then switched attention to replacing the Piccadilly 1973 stock and back to a last batch of S7s for the District line.

What stock shifts a larger crowd with its higher passenger carrying capacity,emmm, I wonder......

Answer.


I can only put it down to a moment of madness on the part of LT, but prior to refurb, the C stock had narrow aisles and the majority of the seating was transverse companion seats, not exactly suitable for a frequent stop-start operation in Central London!

I think C stock have a greater effective capacity because the capacity they have seems to be easier to use.

On a crowded D stock train there seems to be a marked reluctance for passengers to 'move down the car', whereas with a crowded C stock, with their wider door bays, the available space seems to be used much more willingly and quickly.

Another problem with D stock and their single doors is 'dawdlers' who remain in their seats until everyone else has de-trained and then jump up to get off and block the ingress of alighting passengers. On the C stock, the wider entrance and shorter maximum distance to a door means this is not so much of a problem.

Same with the S8's. All trains are designed to get the maximum amount of people in and the attitude seems to be if you are larger than average that's your problem not ours.

The transverse seating in the S8's is most uncomfortable if your bum is bigger than average.

On another line, and another operator, I was told that the seating was designed for the average person. That means that it is too small for 50% of the population.

The average member of the UK population has fewer than two legs, fewer than two eyes: approximately one ovary, 2.4 children, etc etc and lives near Appleby Parva in Leicestershire (the UK's "population centroid"). I have yet to find such a person, in Leicestershire or anywhere else.

(Less, not fewer, as the

You can't agree with me.

The TfL figures for 4 passengers per square are

C stock 739 passengers

D stock 827 passengers

www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/londonunderground/rollingstock/1616.aspx

www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/modesoftransport/londonunderground/rollingstock/1618.aspx

For all you mention above, the first thing I blame is the centre grab poles that were put in the doorways on refurb. The doorways are narrower than the traditional double leaf doorways and the single door leaf is known for its limitations and yet a grab pole was put there! If a full C stock load of passengers cannot be swithced over onto an empty D stock train there is something very wrong indeed. The D stock have the same number of cars as a C stock and each car 15 to 20% longer than a C stock's and there is a centre cab on every C stock train.

LT tried centre grab poles in the double doorways on the H&C "O" stock, sometime in the 1940/50s, and had to take them off because they caused congestion and boarding delays, which were wider than a D's doorways. The Central line 1992 TS has its high level hand rails, located above the doors, painted grey instead of red to encourage people not to block the doorways and use the full length of the cars.

The green forest of centre grab rails.


We have the photo on this thread of the original interior of the C stock and now the refurb version, a decade before the D refurb. What is striking is the openess of the doorways, there is no centre poles there, they are where they should be in the long transverse seating areas and the draught screens taper inwards, which may not seem much, but I think it is a touch of genious. The double handrails and their curved sections at the car end are also noteworthy.

We have the photo on this thread of the original interior of the C stock and now the refurb version a decade before the D refurb, below. What is striking is the openess of the doorways, there is no centre poles there, they are where they should be in the long transverse seating areas and the draught screens taper inwards, which I think it is a touch of genius.

Uncluttered and open.


Also the dual high level grab rails which run the full length of the cars and the curved ends are also noteworthy for their efficency.

Not withstanding the ability of the C to Hoover up people better than the D stock. The A & now S stock are superior to the C stock - which results in a little known fact of a shortage of S stocks in the city will see KX Met go into station control.

I guess the S7 will be even better, but even with walk through I do wonder if he number of doors cut out may increase dwell times.

Personally, I'd say the C Stock have a higher capacity, mainly because of there layout so people stand differently. The D stock might be able to carry more people but the way people stand on them makes it so there is less room when really there is.
Anyway, back on topic, I was at Bombardier (they had a family open day, but I was invited) a few weeks ago and the guy I was talking to said that the S7s that were made were just waiting for an extra car then they would be sent down. Also, instead of one a week they would do two a week. He also said the S7s would all be in service across the H&C and Circle by the end of 2013 and the District should have them by 2015.
Another thing he mentioned was that some C Stocks would remain after the D Stocks had gone because they can go on more lines and if an S7 fails they can send out a C stock.
Also, a C Stock car was sent for scrap today, was a sad sight!

Just bumping this as it's now pretty clear that there is some problem with the introduction of this stock as there appear to have been no new units placed on the H&C since the beginning of December.

There are still eleven trains backed up at the 'test track', one has been delivered and seems to have been stuck in the Neasden Depot for the last 11 days and one has been delivered and is operating on the Met.

Have the discovered some fault that is stopping them from passing testing? (And how long is that test track?)

Or have they discovered some operational problem that they need to sort out before more stock can be assimilated onto the line?

I believe they are still training the Train Operators on these units

T700 has been replaced by T703 which runs to Barking

Moderator Comment

The tone of your post above is both rude and disrespectful, especially as you've no doubt seen that DStock7080 is both an admin here and a very knowledgeable driver.

If you're not sure what a WTT is or the fact that they are all in operational use until a certain date then feel free to do a search of the site and the answers will become apparent.

To that end, I'd suggest that the problem of not understanding what a WTT is is yours and while we're perfectly happy to answer people's questions, I would advise you to be more tactful in future when asking for information or clarification of something that you don't understand.

WTT stands for Working Timetable.

See: districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=20439