S Stock and the East London Line

the platforms at Canada Water are only 4 car length and can't be extended for the possible 5th car. Selective door opening will be used.

Some of the old platforms could probably take an S7 in the same way.

But if the ELL hadn't been transferred to LO, it would still only run from Shoreditch to New Cross / New Cross Gate.

I think those are special cases and only shared with Lorol trains - not heavy freight for example.

this could go on forever

And on the Wimbledon branch, when owned by British Rail, they shared with all sorts of mainline train, including express passenger and loco-hauled trains. Indeed, they still do, but the track has been owned by TfL since BR privatisation in 1994.

But come on, 3 whole cars would be going a bit too far with SDO, so an S4 stock may have been a logical idea or just transfer it to LO where it could run 4 cars (correct me if i'm wrong) as standard....

Personally,I think NR should investigate the possibilities for adding a few connections North and South to enable the ELL (now in their possession) to be used as a very handy Night Freight route.
I know that the new build section North of Whitechapel is too steep/curved for such a use (a wasted opportunity),but a freight curve leading to the East on the GE would make this a valuable connection outside passenger hours.

Metropolitan Line trains share NR lines between Harrow-on-the Hill and Amersham, well able to take freight although there isn't much (if any, other than infrastructure) these days. Freight also once ran regularly on the Hammersmith and City between Paddington and Farringdon (to Smithfield Market).

Rotherhithe and Wapping would be extremely difficult if not impossible to lengthen without total rebuilding, which might be difficult to cost-justify. If the ELL had been retained as part of London Underground, it would either have needed a special build of S4 stock, or a retained fleet such as D78s.

As an aside, the decision to build Canada Water ELL only 4-car length must rank as one of the crassest short-sighted decisions ever made, along with Cutty Sark.

Harrow to Amersham has always been Metropolitan line / TfL owned and it has always been the National Rail trains running over 'foreign' track that is currently owned by TfL.



Rotherhithe could quite possibly have been rebuilt an alternative entrance / exit for the Canada Water platforms, if the later station had long enough platforms. After all, the platforms are very close together. However, I think the problem with building longer Canada Water ELL platforms was down to the space available for adding the platforms in a rather restricted site.

This is one of two remaining cases where NR trains run on LU tracks - there used to be many more, especially when the "Widened Lines" between Kings Cross and Moorgate were owned by the Metropolitan, as was the East London Line.

The Wimbledon branch is unusual because it was owned by NR until c1994(?), and is still signalled to their standards. NR can still use it for empty stock workings, diversions, and the odd scheduled passenger service (primarily done for route learning purposes).

The other TfL route on which NR trains run in normal service is between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham. This line is signalled to LU statndards, and trains on this route have to be fitted with tripcocks.

Of course, but the A60/62 stock weren't that busy when running the ELL from Shoreditch/Whitechapel - New Cross/New Cross Gate

How many cars of S stock would fit in the Chalfont & Latimer bay? I think that that might have affected the choice taken, if LUL had retained the line and had to purchase short SSR trains

You are right. When the extension to Dalston was first proposed, I used to imagine A stock trains trundling along the Kingsland Viaduct, which actually hadn't long been closed at that time.

True, but the Met does run into Central London, so it is considered a metro service, and the S stock was designed more with this in mind than for its suburban credentials.