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Post by andypurk on Sept 14, 2012 20:54:42 GMT
There was also talk about those S7s that have gained a carriage may just stay with the Met and then the S8s will lose a carriage and join the Circle/H&C/District instead of a lot more faffing, that still is being worked out if they can but that is only a possible. Apparently there is an issue with doing that due to some of the wiring and technical side of things but they are looking into it as it will be easier in the long term. Cheers Jason Would that really be a good idea? Surely the internal layout of the S7 and S8 is different, so would the Met really want to keep any S7+1 instead of S8 trains? |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 15, 2012 0:35:17 GMT
I'm interested in what technically and in wiring makes the idea difficult? Wasn't this supposed to be one stock for all lines?
With absolutely no disrespect to anyone working on them or providing info, but its a bit of a farce if not just the interior is different (and the formation length, and the frontmost doors debarcle), but also the under-the-surface stuff? That implies there are more car variations than there were in R stock! (And at least that looked good and had decent sprung seats!)
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 15, 2012 9:29:13 GMT
Quite. The Met does not need or want the S7 interior on any of its trains!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 15, 2012 9:42:37 GMT
I'm interested in what technically and in wiring makes the idea difficult? Wasn't this supposed to be one stock for all lines? With absolutely no disrespect to anyone working on them or providing info, but its a bit of a farce if not just the interior is different (and the formation length, and the frontmost doors debarcle), but also the under-the-surface stuff? That implies there are more car variations than there were in R stock! (And at least that looked good and had decent sprung seats!) You are right to think it is "one stock for all Lines" with the only exceptions of interior layout and train length. There are basically only 4 different S Stock cars and these are used in both S7 and S8 formation. Perhaps we should now refer to these as: S8DM, S7DM, S8MS, S7M2 etc. ? I'm sure it would be difficult to change the interior layouts once built! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 15, 2012 9:47:07 GMT
I know sanding equipment is to be fitted later to S8 cars but will that not make them 'different'?
The standard formation is S8) DM-M1-M2-MS-MS-M2-M1-DM and S7) DM-M1-M2-MS-MS-M1-DM isn't it?
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Post by metrailway on Sept 15, 2012 14:05:42 GMT
This story just proves yet again the poor quality of products from Bombardier. I just hope that LU are not forking out money to rectify these faults.
I certainly will not be happy if we are stuck with S7+1s for the long term as that would mean a further reduction in the number of seats.
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Post by plasmid on Sept 15, 2012 21:23:54 GMT
This story just proves yet again the poor quality of products from Bombardier. I just hope that LU are not forking out money to rectify these faults. I certainly will not be happy if we are stuck with S7+1s for the long term as that would mean a further reduction in the number of seats. You mean...poor choice in suppliers. |
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Post by redsetter on Sept 15, 2012 22:36:40 GMT
there is a youtube video "Full Journey on the Metropolitan Line From Uxbridge to Aldgate All Stations" that appears to have a rattling noise from one of these trains at least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2012 18:37:24 GMT
Hmm, funny how all the papers months early saying that they wanted the keep work ing a "British" company and that Bombardia should have won the contract! I don't see any news of this being in the press, showing that the quality of the trains isn't up to the standard required!
I don't see why they are modifying the S7 stock. Why not just keep them as 7 cars to save the hassel of modifying them? Or is it in the contract that they must supply X trains at 8 car lengths?
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 16, 2012 20:05:32 GMT
Using 7 car trains would be a huge drop in capacity so this is to be avoided. Bombardier are to blame for this problem so I would assume they'll do what they're told!
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Post by A60stock on Sept 16, 2012 23:55:50 GMT
right, so when will we be seeing these s7+1 trains on the met? i shall be watching out for them
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 17, 2012 7:30:50 GMT
In the next couple of months I think.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 11:13:50 GMT
I would love to see Amersham man´s face when an S7 plus one rolls up at Amersham or Chesham with its all longitudinal seats ;D ;D ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 11:20:20 GMT
I would love to see Amersham man´s face when an S7 plus one rolls up at Amersham or Chesham with its all longitudinal seats ;D ;D ;D I don't think they will care too much as they'll still get a seat. It's those further down the line who'll be worse off! Saying that, it may be a different story in the evening peak  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2012 13:36:37 GMT
there is a youtube video "Full Journey on the Metropolitan Line From Uxbridge to Aldgate All Stations" that appears to have a rattling noise from one of these trains at least. Is it me or do they sound like a fruit machine in a pub? XF |
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Sept 17, 2012 14:34:44 GMT
there is a youtube video "Full Journey on the Metropolitan Line From Uxbridge to Aldgate All Stations" that appears to have a rattling noise from one of these trains at least. Is it me or do they sound like a fruit machine in a pub? XF Blimey that is a racket... the sound reminds me of a pinball machine more than a fruit machine.... either way sounds worrying! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 17, 2012 17:45:44 GMT
Yes not a nice noise. Reminds me of being on a bus!
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Post by astock5000 on Sept 18, 2012 1:24:51 GMT
Will the extra M2 cars in the S7+1s have to be modified before they are used in other units? M2 cars are NDMs without shoegear, so they must take their power from the MSs, and as S stock cars are permanently coupled I wouldn't have thought that they would be reversible. If that's the case they would need to be converted from 'D' to 'A' end (or however you should describe that when you're referring to a NDM). Could that be done at Neasden or would they have to return to Derby?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 18, 2012 5:32:18 GMT
Will the extra M2 cars in the S7+1s have to be modified before they are used in other units? M2 cars are NDMs without shoegear, so they must take their power from the MSs, and as S stock cars are permanently coupled I wouldn't have thought that they would be reversible. If that's the case they would need to be converted from 'D' to 'A' end (or however you should describe that when you're referring to a NDM). Could that be done at Neasden or would they have to return to Derby? Good question! In writing my initial response I couldn't see your point but now I can! |
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cso
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Post by cso on Sept 18, 2012 6:34:23 GMT
I was thinking about this yesterday... if there are only going to be 3 S7+1s on the Met... would they actually be running them as part of regular service, or would they just remain as spare trains in the depot? I'd imagine the timetable doesn't require the whole fleet of S8s for running, with no spares?
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Post by andypurk on Sept 18, 2012 8:00:30 GMT
Will the extra M2 cars in the S7+1s have to be modified before they are used in other units? M2 cars are NDMs without shoegear, so they must take their power from the MSs, and as S stock cars are permanently coupled I wouldn't have thought that they would be reversible. If that's the case they would need to be converted from 'D' to 'A' end (or however you should describe that when you're referring to a NDM). Could that be done at Neasden or would they have to return to Derby? I don't think that the S Stock has the problem of 'A' and 'D' end and I see no reason why an even numbered M2 car would be different from an odd numbered one, especially as the connections between the cars are semi-permanent. All the post 1990 stock (1992, 1995 and 1996) can/could be coupled either way round. |
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Post by dennisc on Sept 18, 2012 11:37:05 GMT
Is it me or do they sound like a fruit machine in a pub? XF Blimey that is a racket... the sound reminds me of a pinball machine more than a fruit machine.... either way sounds worrying! Having traveled on a few S8's, I feel sure that irritating noise is coming from faulty or ill fitted light diffusers, as in other parts of the train the noise is absent. |
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Post by motorman on Sept 18, 2012 20:41:59 GMT
I too have thought about the use of S7+1 on the Met. Some careful diagramming could perhaps see them restricted to Uxbridge - Aldgate workings where the lack of facing seats would not be as sensative as it would on the Amersham / Chesham / Watford lines.
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 18, 2012 20:59:10 GMT
Agreed. I think there are one or two diagrams which remain Ux-Ald all day?
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Post by citysig on Sept 18, 2012 21:16:27 GMT
I'm afraid to say that I doubt very much the S7+1s will be restricted / planned for just Uxbridge trips. However, it could be that attempts are made to use them during the peaks on trains which do only a handful of trips before returning to depot.
At the end of the day, a train is a train regardless of seating arrangement. Whilst this may not please those who travel the longer distances, would they rather wait for extended periods? If the latter, then they can always let the S7+1 depart and wait for the S8 a short time behind...
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 18, 2012 21:20:02 GMT
To be fair there are only 12 fewer seats on the S7+1 trains anyway!
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Post by crusty54 on Sept 19, 2012 9:13:38 GMT
To be fair there are only 12 fewer seats on the S7+1 trains anyway! and people can walk through the train to get a seat |
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Post by plasmid on Sept 22, 2012 16:41:20 GMT
Rode one for the first time yesterday, was thoroughly impressed. Iconic design and very comfortable, though if the bogies are made of cheese (Peugeot) and are falling apart then that explains it *sarcasm*.
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Post by fleetline on Sept 27, 2012 10:16:27 GMT
I'd be very surprised if there was a widespread problem with cracked bogies on such new trains. The wiring issue sounds more plausible. I wouldn't be too sure of that statement as Bombardier have form here. After delivering two 377/5's both had taken back to Derby for repairs (one by road). And then they had a bearings issue when half the fleet were in service and had to be withdrawn due to concerns over safety. These units were built alongside the early S8's and the 09ts. Maybe there was a bigger issue at Derby? |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 30, 2012 22:13:26 GMT
As most of the people who know me on the forum also know why I stopped posting, I know you will appreciate that I am not going to go in to great detail. We will be sending 37 trains back to Derby for a number of modifications and we are also taking the opportunity to install the wiring looms for ATC. This is not costing LU or, more importantly, you the tax payer anything as Bombardier are doing this work under warranty arrangements. Please let me be clear that we do not have cracked bogies on any of our 'S' Stock fleet. As discussed here and elsewhere on the forum we will be supplementing the S8 Met fleet with 3 S7+1 trains as a temporary measure until all the modified trains are returned to service in London. Once the work is completed then the S7+1 trains will revert to 7 car stock for the C&H and District lines. Just as an aside, and if you will forgive me slightly off topic, you will start to notice that the entire 'S' Stock fleet will be having strap hanger handles fitted (similar to the Class 378 Bombardier Stock) in order to assist customers who have complained about the height and availability of the grab rails.
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