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Post by elo10538 on Aug 21, 2012 18:10:29 GMT
I was wondering if this trailer would be refurbished to add to the collection of historical Metropolitan Railway rolling stock, on display during the MET 150 celebrations. I believe it came to the LT Museum from North Woolwich Museum, and was prior to that at the MOD site at Shoeburyness. Does anyone know what the original livery would have been when new to traffic on the MET, and what the car number originally was ?
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 21, 2012 19:15:26 GMT
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 21, 2012 21:08:47 GMT
I think the plan is to restore but as said it will take a lot of work. Won't be ready for next year.
Don't know the number either but it can only be one of 20 cars. It's probably one of: 6504 6510 6512 6516 or 6518.
Livery was varnished teak.
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 21, 2012 21:28:57 GMT
They originally had a lighter coloured window surrounds IIRC it was a tan or yellow colour. The remains at Coalville appear to be in an early livery. I do believe one of the motor cars was damaged in an accident prior to WW1 and was subsequently provided with a different type of body so could this be the remains of that body?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 21, 2012 23:02:24 GMT
I do believe one of the motor cars was damaged in an accident prior to WW1 and was subsequently provided with a different type of body so could this be the remains of that body? Brian Hardy's book mentions that 1904 motor coach No 18 was replaced by a new one in 1907 which was given the same number, but the car discussed above is a trailer. Circle Line DM 2588 was damaged by enemy action in 1941, and rebuilt with the body from 2552, making it the only Circle car with a clerestory - but again this is a motor car. Hardy lists twenty-two Met motor coaches converted to trailers (and still in stock in 1933): and eighteen 1904/05 motor coaches (various Nos from 1 to 55) which were converted to trailers in 1929-31 - 191-208, later LT Nos 9582-9599, the two push-pull conversions of 1940, originally Met 387 and 418, became LT 2761/2763, and on push-pull conversion became 512, and 513 the two pre-A-stock experiments of 1944 - originally Met Nos 207 and 252, LT 2707 and 2752, later 17000 and 20000. Conversely, GN&C trailer No 84 was converted to motor car No 7 some time before the Met took over that line. A source of potential confusion was the met's practice of numbering its hauled stock, motor coaches, driving trailers, composite trailers and trailer thirds in five separate series, all starting at No 1. The H&C stock followed the same practice, so there could be up to nine cars with the same number running around: when the H&C was absorbed into the Met their cars were renumbered into the respective Met series so there were "only" five cars with each number. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 21, 2012 23:05:01 GMT
Don't know the number either but it can only be one of 20 cars. It's probably one of: 6504 6510 6512 6516 or 6518. . Those are driving trailers - trailers weree numbered in the 9xxx series |
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 22, 2012 8:07:42 GMT
The car at Acton is a driving trailer. The other surviving remains also appears to be a driving car (from the photograph), it certainly has a clerestory roof.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 8:37:02 GMT
I think the plan is to restore but as said it will take a lot of work. Won't be ready for next year. Don't know the number either but it can only be one of 20 cars. It's probably one of: 6504 6510 6512 6516 or 6518. Livery was varnished teak. According to my Met Saloon disposal notes, I would suggest it might be 6503, which I have as being sold to DCRE at Shoeburyness on 24/8/44. Regarding the other cars mentioned: 6504 was stored at Ealing Common, scrapped 10/4/46. 6510 was stored Acton Town east (temporary) sidings, scrapped 28/7/45. 6512 was stored on LT (location not known), scrapped 28/7/45. 6516 is recorded as still in service on the Met in 1942 with 9513, 9529, 9524, 9529 and 9585, with T Stock motor car 2712 at one end and 2729 at the other. 6516 was scrapped 2/11/45. 6520 was sold to the Ministry of Fuel 12/10/43 and became a "Kitchen Car" numbered 020008, being scrapped 16/7/60. |
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Post by Chris W on Aug 22, 2012 16:16:38 GMT
I think the plan is to restore but as said it will take a lot of work. Won't be ready for next year. The LT Museum already has an ongoing project to restore a former car... namely 353. This has been an ongoing, manageable, but rather expensive project... [url=http://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/projects/met-353 ]LT Museum page[/url] [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/ltmuseum/sets/72157627922574156/with/6260127721/ ]Flickr images/page[/url] Considering the cost for the smallish 4 compartment carriage has totaled £572,000, then there's the cost of works to steam loco No. 1 ( an appeal for funds is ongoing), the chances of the 1904 car receiving any work in the short term is somewhat unlikely. Stabled close by was the Q Stock Project, itself being re-evaluated, the Standard Stock cars... and the 38ts which needs to be maintained and updated to allow for current railway technologies so that it can run during special events... The conservation/restoration list is long... money/funding is tight... and space in the Acton depot is at a premium... |
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Post by phillw48 on Aug 22, 2012 16:35:08 GMT
Three control trailers ended up at Shoebury including 6519 which was also converted to a kitchen car numbered 020006. As can be seen in the Carriages Trust photograph the remains at Coalville had not been fitted with a central communicating door which indicates that it was withdrawn before 1934.
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 22, 2012 18:09:25 GMT
So the chances of having working Q and Pre-1938 stock trains have ended. The future looks bleak for half of the cars. Shame. This is way the A stock at Acton depot must be kept working.
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Post by elo10538 on Aug 22, 2012 18:35:40 GMT
Thank you for the replies so far. I believe the 1904 car in question was previously used as an office at Shoeburyness from where it definitely came. From what is left of this car at the Acton Depot what would immediately identify it as a Driving Trailer as opposed to an ordinary trailer?
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 22, 2012 19:12:48 GMT
Good question. Driving trailers employed the same body as a trailer but were provided with shunting box, longer grab handles and shoe gear on the leading bogie. They had a pair of marker lights too. Is this car a trailer or driving trailer?
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Post by elo10538 on Aug 29, 2012 9:02:48 GMT
I hear of interesting developments concerning this particular piece of Metropolitan Railway history. Last week some exploratory conservation work was undertaken to remove some of the non-railway related items on the vehicle. From photos previously available , it seems the plywood boarding covering the windows, was removed, as was the broken window glass found behind it.An area of the roof had the non-original roofing felt removed, presumably added while at either North Woolwich or, more likely, while used as an office at the MOD facility in Shoeburyness, and the interior of the non-burnt out section had the loose paintwork removed. I'm told that this had been a long intended aim for this vehicle ,but the impending MET 150 celebrations have somewhat heightened the need to display this vehicle in as original ex-railway condition as possible.
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