Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2012 23:37:02 GMT
Now that there are fewer A stock in service to get in the way of the S stock, is there any plan to unleash more power on the S stock and bring in a faster timetable? In some cases - such as Amersham to Rickmansworth, drivers can keep to the timetable by coasting most of the way and without exceeding 40mph on a 60mph track!!
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a60
I will make the 8100 Class DART my new A Stock.
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Post by a60 on Aug 11, 2012 0:13:46 GMT
I wouldn't count on it, personally.
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 11, 2012 7:52:24 GMT
not until the track replacement has been done and the new signalling is in place
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 11, 2012 11:41:25 GMT
A slight increase will occur from 19 May 2013, with a running time adjustment.
An increased frequency for off-peak Aldgate trains is planned for 8 Dec 2013.
The first major change comes with the proposed Dec 2016 changes which should see ATO north of Baker Street.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2012 14:52:03 GMT
How much of the existing track and track layout is to be renewed/ changed apart from upgrading the conductor rails and strengthening power supplies? Will - for example - there be an upgrade to 60mph up the complete met, and work to remove some of the horrible pointwork at places such as neasden which require permanent speed reductions to 40mph etc? For my money, there seem to be too many operational and track reductions in speed - such as HArrow North Junction. Some very rough track in places too.
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 11, 2012 15:29:40 GMT
All the platform areas at Harrow-on-the-Hill were done last year and featured in the TV series about the Tube.
I can't imagine that all the track and ballast near Neasden Depot won't be replaced.
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Post by ruislip on Aug 11, 2012 18:25:46 GMT
An increased frequency for off-peak Aldgate trains is planned for 8 Dec 2013. What northern endpoint will they come from? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 9:03:01 GMT
It would be really interesting to see what S stock units can do - especially in comparison to 378s which they seem similar to. My experience on the East London line is that trains can keep time without exceeding 40 mph and with lots of coasting. Only when running late will you get a fast run.
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 12, 2012 9:03:46 GMT
An increased frequency for off-peak Aldgate trains is planned for 8 Dec 2013. What northern endpoint will they come from? more delays for Circle and H&C! |
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Post by t697 on Aug 12, 2012 11:52:34 GMT
It would be really interesting to see what S stock units can do - especially in comparison to 378s which they seem similar to. My experience on the East London line is that trains can keep time without exceeding 40 mph and with lots of coasting. Only when running late will you get a fast run. As has been mentioned before in similar threads, the S stock will have to stay with its present train performance whilst it is running on the 'legacy' trainstop signalling because the safety overlaps are not designed for higher speeds. A very small modification to the S8 initial low speed acceleration south of Finchley Road is planned but that's all until the new signalling which will allow the full designed performance to be used in appropriate places. Designed top speed isn't any higher - 100km/h, but that will be quite impressive in some areas. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 12:11:56 GMT
I was rather surprised, when travelling southbound on the Met. last Tuesday evening, to hear the train driver announce over the PA system at Harrow-on-the-Hill that the train was booked to have five minutes of dwell time there. Now, 30 seconds I can understand, but five minutes .... ? Maybe a faster timetable could be achieved by tightening-up the existing one - ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2012 14:36:31 GMT
its quite common at the moment for mets to be running early when everythings ok trains regularly running up to five minutes early at times. in terms of stand time its beneficial to have some built in slack to aid service recovery when required and especially on the met with all the conflicting junctions its getting the balance right that must be the difficult bit
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Post by A60stock on Aug 13, 2012 3:21:32 GMT
in another thread i have read that the off peak fasts will return in 2016, and that the reason for their withdrawal was to allow upgrade work to commence?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2012 8:58:21 GMT
Top speed isn't an issue on the MEt for me, because it seems rare that you can achieve it without closing up on a train in front due to the close headways and slack running times.
Take for example the station sections from Amersham to Rickmansworth.
Most of these could be done in 3 to 3mins 15 secs by running at 55-60mph on an A stock on dry rail. But the times are 4 , 4 and 5 mins for each section. Therefore drivers take it really easy and rarely exceed 40mph to avoid a long station stop and having to make announcements to disgruntled passengers! Moor PArk to Harrow can be done in 8 to 8 and a half minutes, but is booked for 10! I'm sure the timings could be sharpened up a bit north of Harrow without affecting reliability too much.
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Post by crusty54 on Aug 13, 2012 19:57:33 GMT
Top speed isn't an issue on the MEt for me, because it seems rare that you can achieve it without closing up on a train in front due to the close headways and slack running times. Take for example the station sections from Amersham to Rickmansworth. Most of these could be done in 3 to 3mins 15 secs by running at 55-60mph on an A stock on dry rail. But the times are 4 , 4 and 5 mins for each section. Therefore drivers take it really easy and rarely exceed 40mph to avoid a long station stop and having to make announcements to disgruntled passengers! Moor PArk to Harrow can be done in 8 to 8 and a half minutes, but is booked for 10! I'm sure the timings could be sharpened up a bit north of Harrow without affecting reliability too much. But in 2016 the trains will be driven by computers |
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Post by memorex on Aug 13, 2012 20:24:07 GMT
I was rather surprised, when travelling southbound on the Met. last Tuesday evening, to hear the train driver announce over the PA system at Harrow-on-the-Hill that the train was booked to have five minutes of dwell time there. Now, 30 seconds I can understand, but five minutes .... ? Maybe a faster timetable could be achieved by tightening-up the existing one - ? The largest stand I can recall from the box sheets at Harrow is an 'f' (3 mins) - that's on one Uxbridge an hour. |
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Post by citysig on Aug 22, 2012 21:06:39 GMT
A slight increase will occur from 19 May 2013, with a running time adjustment. An increased frequency for off-peak Aldgate trains is planned for 8 Dec 2013. The first major change comes with the proposed Dec 2016 changes which should see ATO north of Baker Street. Having seen the May and December 2013 timetables in various forms, there isn't a whole lot of difference. There are tweaks here and there to improve performance of the timetable, and stabling alterations centred around the S7 stock (which will use Wembley Park sidings - one day  ) 2016 is the planned introduction of new services under the new line-wide signalling system, and depending on which day you hear the rumours, this is either planned to be ready in 2015 or 2018. The return of the "old" fast services is not currently on the cards - but that isn't to say it won't happen. Various campaigns have been voiced - including on here. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2012 23:14:08 GMT
Firstly, Welcome back metcontrol! Great to see you back  Also, thanks for the update |
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Aug 22, 2012 23:35:16 GMT
MetControl!!! ;D ;D ;D It would be really interesting to see what S stock units can do - especially in comparison to 378s which they seem similar to. My experience on the East London line is that trains can keep time without exceeding 40 mph and with lots of coasting. Only when running late will you get a fast run. As has been mentioned before in similar threads, the S stock will have to stay with its present train performance whilst it is running on the 'legacy' trainstop signalling because the safety overlaps are not designed for higher speeds. Didn't A stock ever do 70mph over the existing track? |
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Post by metrailway on Aug 22, 2012 23:52:52 GMT
Didn't A stock ever do 70mph over the existing track? Yes and it went over 70mph occasionally as well... Welcome back MetControl |
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Fahad
In memoriam
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Post by Fahad on Aug 22, 2012 23:54:45 GMT
Why is it unsafe for S stock to do the same? =(
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Post by metrailway on Aug 23, 2012 0:00:20 GMT
Why is it unsafe for S stock to do the same? =( I think it might have something to do with the overlaps. The Met is signalled for the A Stock which is slightly shorter than the S Stock so the overlaps might be insufficient protection if a S Stock SPADs at a higher speed. Since I'm no expert don't quote me on this. I might be talking complete rubbish  EDIT: Also it could be due to the power. Wasn't the S Stock designed to work off 750V DC leccy? 750V DC will come to the Met sometime in the future. |
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Fahad
In memoriam
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Post by Fahad on Aug 23, 2012 8:41:10 GMT
The length would make sense, I'd forgotten about that. I don't see how the power would affect signalling safety, though?
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Aug 23, 2012 10:45:05 GMT
Why is it unsafe for S stock to do the same? =( I think it might have something to do with the overlaps. The Met is signalled for the A Stock which is slightly shorter than the S Stock so the overlaps might be insufficient protection if a S Stock SPADs at a higher speed. Since I'm no expert don't quote me on this. I might be talking complete rubbish EDIT: Also it could be due to the power. Wasn't the S Stock designed to work off 750V DC leccy? 750V DC will come to the Met sometime in the future. So when the Met gets resignalled it should be possible, right? |
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Post by citysig on Aug 23, 2012 11:38:51 GMT
Once the power and signalling upgrades/renewals have all taken place, then of course S-stock will be used to their full potential. Now whether this means we'll have faster start-stop times between all those stations they call at, or whether we'll see 70mph thrashing on a fast Amersham remains to be seen...
(p.s. thanks for the welcome back ;D)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 11:59:44 GMT
But the trains have a design speed of 62 mph and i'm told that they cut out above around 55 mph at the moment.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 23, 2012 14:40:21 GMT
Once the power and signalling upgrades/renewals have all taken place, then of course S-stock will be used to their full potential. Now whether this means we'll have faster start-stop times between all those stations they call at, or whether we'll see 70mph thrashing on a fast Amersham remains to be seen... (p.s. thanks for the welcome back ;D) I miss those 70mph thrashes on the fast lines! Welcome back MC. |
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Post by motorman on Aug 23, 2012 20:36:35 GMT
I well remember northbound A Stock runs around 70mph. On a lightly loaded train sat at the front of the leading car there were occasions when one would hand onto something when the train lurched over the pointwork (now removed) just to the north of Neasden station. Exciting white knuckle times.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 20:49:02 GMT
i can certainly confirm from personal experience that s stocks will happily motor beyond 55- when we were all getting used to them it was quite common to find yourself speeding because you werent aware of the capabilities of the new train i suspect everyones more used to them now
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 18:37:03 GMT
I've seen a true 62 mph 100kmh on board an s stock - driver with controller fully open!!
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