Fahad
In memoriam
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Post by Fahad on Jun 13, 2012 20:27:05 GMT
I have noticed on the window of at least one Central Line train cab (that of 91263) a sticker with a maroon background, and the letter A written in the foreground in white. The sticker is not dissimilar to a A/B platform categorisation sticker, and is roughly the same size.
What is this?
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Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2012 20:30:12 GMT
I seem to remember that the A meant that the train has been converted for ATO use back in the days when ATO was being rolled out on the line.
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Fahad
In memoriam
Posts: 459
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Post by Fahad on Jun 13, 2012 20:36:00 GMT
Were the stickers peeled off in an organised fashion, or just over time lost? I have found a picture of 91263 with the sticker  |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2012 20:43:49 GMT
Not sure if they are being peeled off with the cab front refresh project. I don't think there has been any wholesale attempt to remove them - may as well just leave them!
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Post by alfie on Jun 13, 2012 21:06:41 GMT
Loads about. Here's an interesting variant..  Has someone painstakingly removed the red?  |
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Post by tecchy on Jun 13, 2012 21:22:40 GMT
A end and the D end of trains. If you look on the new 09 Stock they have them between all the carriages.
A end of a unit is usually facing north or west and the D end is usually facing east or south.
Although this changes from line to line (On the Met you have Watford North and South curve to reverse the direction of trains, on the Northern you have Kennington loop, on the Piccadilly you have the Heathrow loop, on the Central you have the Woodford loop, etc)
A stock also have them (or had them) if they were actually replaced when they fell off over time.
I have never worked on the Northern or Picc so don't know if they do it but I was using that as an example.
The only one I know that have them applied and is guaranteed to stay at the same end for its entire life is the Victoria Line ones.
The colour has little to do with it, they are faded by sunlight and come in a variety of colours depending on manufacturer and line.
The idea is that one of the bogies on a car is called the D end bogie and the other is called A end bogie. Making comments with faults/ maintenance easier to identify.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2012 21:29:42 GMT
A end and the D end of trains. If you look on the new 09 Stock they have them between all the carriages. A end of a unit is usually facing north or west and the D end is usually facing east or south. Although this changes from line to line (On the Met you have Watford North and South curve to reverse the direction of trains, on the Northern you have Kennington loop, on the Piccadilly you have the Heathrow loop, on the Central you have the Woodford loop, etc) I have never worked on the Northern or Picc so don't know if they do it but I was using that as an example. The only one I know that have them applied is guaranteed to stay at the same end for its entire life is the Victoria Line ones. The idea is that one of the bogies on a car is called the D end bogie and the other is called A end bogie. Making comments with faults/ maintenance easier to identify. But the 1992 stock were not handed like previous trains, as they were fully designed to be turned in service and couple up to any other unit. There are no "D" stickers on the 1992 stock. I am pretty certain that the stickers were applied to identify traisn converted for ATO running. |
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Post by tecchy on Jun 13, 2012 21:40:45 GMT
But the 1992 stock were not handed like previous trains, as they were fully designed to be turned in service and couple up to any other unit. There are no "D" stickers on the 1992 stock. I am pretty certain that the stickers were applied to identify traisn converted for ATO running. Doesn't matter if they are designed to couple up to anything and which way whoever. Still need a system for numbering up bogies/ axles that means if a fault is reported on a specific axle the numbering will always direct the person to the correct axle regardless of the way round the train is relative to the line. An engineering term for this would be a datum. |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2012 21:44:55 GMT
But the 1992 stock were not handed like previous trains, as they were fully designed to be turned in service and couple up to any other unit. There are no "D" stickers on the 1992 stock. I am pretty certain that the stickers were applied to identify traisn converted for ATO running. Doesn't matter if they are designed to couple up to anything and which way whoever. Still need a system for numbering up bogies/ axles that means if a fault is reported on a specific axle the numbering will always direct the person to the correct axle regardless of the way round the train is relative to the line. An engineering term for this would be a datum. That's fair enough tecchy, but I'm still sure that these stickers aren't related to the A and D ends. The 92 stock never had them on delivery, and they began to appear in 1999 when the fleet was being converted to ATO running, which began at the end of that year. Even by then, the fleet hadn't all been converted, and this was a way for the T/OP to identify whether the train could run in ATO or not. I'm sure there was something in Underground News back then about it. |
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Post by tecchy on Jun 13, 2012 21:47:33 GMT
Doesn't matter if they are designed to couple up to anything and which way whoever. Still need a system for numbering up bogies/ axles that means if a fault is reported on a specific axle the numbering will always direct the person to the correct axle regardless of the way round the train is relative to the line. An engineering term for this would be a datum. That's fair enough tecchy, but I'm still sure that these stickers aren't related to the A and D ends. The 92 stock never had them on delivery, and they began to appear in 1999 when the fleet was being converted to ATO running, which began at the end of that year. Even by then, the fleet hadn't all been converted, and this was a way for the T/OP to identify whether the train could run in ATO or not. I'm sure there was something in Underground News back then about it. Interesting... If you can find it then that would be a great help. Seems like knowledge learned on one stock cannot be passed on to another...!! |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 13, 2012 21:51:01 GMT
That's fair enough tecchy, but I'm still sure that these stickers aren't related to the A and D ends. The 92 stock never had them on delivery, and they began to appear in 1999 when the fleet was being converted to ATO running, which began at the end of that year. Even by then, the fleet hadn't all been converted, and this was a way for the T/OP to identify whether the train could run in ATO or not. I'm sure there was something in Underground News back then about it. Interesting... If you can find it then that would be a great help. Seems like knowledge learned on one stock cannot be passed on to another...!! Quite possibly. I do remember the A and D signs on the stocks that you mentioned in your other posts. Looks like a trip back through the old boxes. If I find i the article I'll post the info.  |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 13, 2012 22:08:25 GMT
All '92 Stock DM cars (91xxx) are "A" ends. There are no "D" end cabs.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Jun 14, 2012 16:11:55 GMT
The A stock has colour coded 'A' and 'D' ends. It recieved them on OPO conversion. The red background denote a non electrical coupling end. The green colour allows connection to another green end.
I think 1992 stock stickers are related to ATO. Confusingly, DM cars are known as A cars. B cars are NDM without shoegear and C cars have shoegear. There are other equipment differences - I assume the B cars have compressors?
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Fahad
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Posts: 459
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Post by Fahad on Jun 14, 2012 18:15:25 GMT
Confusingly, DM cars are known as A cars. B cars are NDM without shoegear and C cars have shoegear. There are other equipment differences - I assume the B cars have compressors? I was intending to ask about the differences between B and C cars - thanks for that! Are there any B-B or C-C units? How about A-C? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 14, 2012 19:13:51 GMT
Don't think so. The standard 8 car train is formed A-B+B-C+C-B+B-A. Of course there can be middle cab A cars in place of B-C units but this is rare (see separate thread for that). There is also a B-D (? or is it D-C?) unit which has de-cing equipment. The Waterloo and City units are known as E-F units which are similar to the A-B units.
I'm sure that A cars are standard DMs, B cars are UNDM with compressors but no shoe gear, C cars are the same as A cars but lack the cab and have a shunting cabinet like the coupling ends of the B cars,
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Fahad
In memoriam
Posts: 459
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Post by Fahad on Jun 14, 2012 20:25:23 GMT
There is also a B-D (? or is it D-C?) unit which has de-cing equipment. Is there only one de-icing train? Does the "D" car have a 93--- number? have a shunting cabinet like the coupling ends of the B cars, Yeah, according to aux's blog, any train can be driven from any car I do wonder, is the coupling cabinet like that of a DLR train, with the seating perch folding up? |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 14, 2012 20:56:18 GMT
There are quite a few de-icing trains.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 14, 2012 20:59:13 GMT
No there are 32 de-icing units. Not to be confused with the 2 sandite trains of old 1962 stock. The D cars are numbered 934XX rather than 93XXX and the B cars that run with them are 924XX rather than 92XXX.
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