Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 18:21:54 GMT
Trains are terminating at bethnal green today.
Question is, when the trains arrive at bethnal green what happens to them?
Surely they can't shunt back eastbound as this would cause problems for other trains.
Are there sidings somewhere?
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Jun 9, 2012 18:30:23 GMT
No sidings, but perhaps it can use the westbound running tunnel as a reversing siding?
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Post by superteacher on Jun 9, 2012 18:37:31 GMT
Detrain in Bethnal Green westbound platform - move into westbound tunnel - train then driven eastbound over crossover into eastbound platform where it re-enters service.
I should mention that the trains are double ended i.e. a driver in each cab, meaning that this can be done quickly enough to clear the line in time for the next train/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 18:49:28 GMT
Ah thanks for the reply, do it continues onward and reverses back. I didn't think there were crossovers in that tunnel. Normally you can see them in the tunnel as gaps when on a train.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 9, 2012 19:10:53 GMT
Ah thanks for the reply, do it continues onward and reverses back. I didn't think there were crossovers in that tunnel. Normally you can see them in the tunnel as gaps when on a train. That crossover was used the other day when the line was flooded, but in the other direction i.e. east to west. When it's used in that direction, passengers can be carried over it. |
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Jun 9, 2012 21:32:43 GMT
Why are passengers allowed to be carried in one direction but not the other?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 9, 2012 22:00:18 GMT
Because it makes sense!!
The crossover is to the west of the station.
Train is reversing west to east: After arriving in the westbound platform, train moves out past the crossover and then reverses via the crossover into the eastbound platform. It makes no sense at all to carry passengers from the westbound platform to the eastbound platform.
Train is reversing east to west: After arriving in the eastbound platform, train departs "wrong road" and passes over the crossover to the westbound and on to Liverpool Street. It makes perfect sense to carry passengers over the crossover for this move!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 11:58:18 GMT
Additionally shunt signals may be used one way and coloured lights the other way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 12:31:12 GMT
So do different signals state go, reverse, crossover etc?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 10, 2012 14:25:09 GMT
Seriously? Are you actually being serious here 'choochoo'? Without signals of some description or other we'd never be able to turn a wheel  Drivers are fully trained on the routes they are qualified over and will therefore know which action is required for each given signal. This isn't the place for a full description of the signalling system and quite frankly, I'm not so sure you'd fully understand it anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 14:40:51 GMT
Apologies I wasn't trying to sound deliberately stupid or insulting.
I actually worded that question completely wrong and it didn't come out what I actually wanted to ask. Sorry.
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Post by 1018509 on Jun 10, 2012 14:51:16 GMT
Shunt signals (white disc with a horizontal red bar when at danger tilted red bar at 45 degrees when clear) shunt moves, no passengers.
Coloured lights usually ok for all moves may be some exceptions, experts here will advise.
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Fahad
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Post by Fahad on Jun 10, 2012 15:30:38 GMT
Because it makes sense!! The crossover is to the west of the station. Train is reversing west to east: After arriving in the westbound platform, train moves out past the crossover and then reverses via the crossover into the eastbound platform. It makes no sense at all to carry passengers from the westbound platform to the eastbound platform. Train is reversing east to west: After arriving in the eastbound platform, train departs "wrong road" and passes over the crossover to the westbound and on to Liverpool Street. It makes perfect sense to carry passengers over the crossover for this move!! I do apologise for my stupidity, didn't see that one  I thought it'd be something more complicated, to do with locking and proving routes or something similar |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 16:23:35 GMT
Coloured lights usually ok for all moves may be some exceptions, experts here will advise. One exception springs to mind, the loop service reversing at Woodford. Entering is a CLS, and exiting iirc is also a CLS. But apparently detraining still happens because there is the possibility someone drunk and abusive may be left on the train and then when the t/op switches ends they could be confronted. |
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 10, 2012 16:57:53 GMT
One exception springs to mind, the loop service reversing at Woodford. Entering is a CLS, and exiting iirc is also a CLS. But apparently detraining still happens because there is the possibility someone drunk and abusive may be left on the train and then when the t/op switches ends they could be confronted. I'd always assumed that was the reason why passengers couldn't be carried across crossovers that required the driver to change ends. Are there any examples of this anywhere? [doubt it] |
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Post by superteacher on Jun 10, 2012 17:01:24 GMT
Coloured lights usually ok for all moves may be some exceptions, experts here will advise. One exception springs to mind, the loop service reversing at Woodford. Entering is a CLS, and exiting iirc is also a CLS. But apparently detraining still happens because there is the possibility someone drunk and abusive may be left on the train and then when the t/op switches ends they could be confronted. Exiting the Woodford loop (no. 21 road is only colour light for trains going into the bay platform and for westbound trains going through the loop. It is possible to run trains through the loop in passenger service in both directions. However, if a train reverse in it, then the exit will be via a shunt signal. |
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Post by Geoffram on Jun 29, 2012 7:40:16 GMT
Can I say first of all that this forum is meant for exchange of information from people who know across to people who don't. It's not right for people like Colin (who as administrator has a position of some importance in the forum) to use phrases like "I'm not sure you'd understand anyway". To my mind, when two people feel they have to apologise for 'their stupidity' in asking a question, something is wrong somewhere. If we think a question is naive (in this case, badly worded), we should all have the decency to answer properly without condescension.
But the real point of this reply is to ask why a crossover would have been put in Bethnal Green in the first place when there are all sorts of reversing facilities at Liverpool Street? When the central part of the line was first built, turnaround facilities were placed frequently along the line to cope with failed locomotives etc., but by the time this part of the Central line was built in the thirties, that obviously wasn't deemed necessary. It's an odd position for a turn back: if it had been placed one station further up, at Mile End - but before the tunnels separate to go either side of the District line platforms - in cases of any disruption of service, passengers could at least transfer on to other lines, as opposed to being stuck in the middle of nowhere at Bethnal Green. Or was this crossover something to do with the tunnels being used for factory activities during the war?
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Post by 21146 on Jun 29, 2012 10:28:40 GMT
There were floodgates at the east end of the platforms so it would make sense to provide a reversing facility prior to this. Having said that, I presume the extension was planned before the floodgates were required by the deteriorating situation in Europe?
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